528 ORAL ARGUMENT OF SIR RICHARD WEBSTER, Q. C. M. P. 



General Foster. — He does not say that the Pribilof Island seals 

 came to that island. 



Sir EiciiARD Webster. — I beg my friend's pardon. I see General 

 Foster's point. It is better for me — but I do not want to argue this 

 case on that theory — if those were only Commander Island seals, be- 

 cause he is speaking of the island of Amchitka. I can x)rove beyond 

 all question, on the evidence, that the Pribilof Islands seals go and are 

 found — in fact that is the United States Case — all along the north of 

 the Aleutian Islands in Behring Sea. I say that to come to the conclu- 

 sion that seals do not pass across 140 miles of sea, when they have trav- 

 ersed hundreds of miles, as much at least as 500 or GOO miles, and do 

 traverse thousands of miles, is a conclusion which, except upon over- 

 whelming testimony, the Court, I submit, will not adopt; reminding the 

 Court that the seals from both Islands are the same species. There is no 

 distinction between the animals. Any distinction in the furs is due to 

 the climatic conditions, and possibly the curing conditions of the Pribi- 

 lof Islands and the Commander Islands respectively; and Mr. Senator 

 Morgan, when Mr. Coudert was arguing, stated at page 638, that the 

 feeding grounds shifted — could not be located — and that, therefore, it 

 was not possible to define the exact place where the seals might be one 

 year, as with another. 



Senator Morgan. — I only asked the question. 



Sir EiCHARD Webster. — I am much obliged, Sir, I understand. 

 But Mr. President, will you look at the evidence of Captain Hooper? 

 It will be found at page 216 of the American Counter Case. Captain 

 Hoo^jer found the seals in large numbers 300 miles west of the islands. 

 It is no question of females — it is the question of finding seals in large 

 numbers 300 miles to the west. He says: 



Daring the run of 400 miles from Lat. 58° 22' N., Long, 177° 42' W., to Lat. 55" 38' 

 N., Long. 174° 23' W., no seals were observed, although a careful look out for them 

 was kept at all times. 



Numerous seals having been found in these latitudes at a distance of 300 miles I infer 

 that the western limit of therana;e of the Pribilof herd of seals is between two and 

 three hundred miles from the islands and that the herds from the Pribilof and Com- 

 mander groups of islands do not mingle. 



I ask why when numerous seals are found at a distance of 300 miles, 

 it shall from that be inferred that the western limit is between 200 and 

 300 miles '? It is a difficult thing quite to appreciate. I am not unduly or 

 unfairly criticising Captain Hoojier's evidence but I point to numbers 

 of seals having been found at a distance of 300 miles from the Pribiloft" 

 Islands — I am content to show tliat those animals, speaking of them as 

 scattered animals — not as thick, dense flocks of them round the Pribiloff 

 Islands — do travel a considerable distance, and again I say: What 

 argument is there which is conclusive: or which you can say is found 

 in any way sufficiently powerful, to induce you to come to the belief 

 that they do not travel that intermediate 140 miles which is suggested 

 to be the zone of separation between the two herds'? I am not now, 

 Mr. President, criticising this matter at length. I shall have to deal 

 with it at length when I touch the question of regulations, and I shall 

 then venture to urge before this Tribunal that the oi)inion of the British 

 Commissioners is completely justified by the evidence subsequently 

 taken. There is a very convenient summary of the evidence uj>on this 

 matter at pages 23 and 24 of the Supplementary Eeport of the British 

 commissioners. I am only using this as a part of my argument in order 

 to show what is the existing state of the evidence with regard to the 

 distances to which the seals a])proach one another. I will begin to 

 read from the bottom of page 23. 



