February 14. 1867. 1 



JOURNAL OF HORTICULTURE AND COTTAGE GARDENER. 



125 



tbo misniiderstandiiiRliiy with you, nnd act accorilinqly. Wlietber, howovor, 

 you or they nre in fault aa respects the misumlerntjindinf^ uii thu turms 

 supposed to he ftfjrood nprm, there cm be no duubt tliiit the Comiuittoo 

 should bear tho responsibility of it, since you, their Chuirniiin and iJele- 

 ^ gate, had in your posHCHsion a copy of the minute before they cntured 

 npou the occupation of the Gardens for tbo second week. I thonght, 

 therefore, that it was my duty as Secretary to send evidence of this to 

 tho Committee as soon an Mr. Moore conveyed to nic semi-othcially what 

 their probable course would bo. I have only to add that the onii-fsion of 

 your letter from tbo correapondenee was not caused by any desire to 

 place the Society's position in a better liffht.— I remaio, dear sir, your's 

 XaithfuUy. (Signed) "HEsnY Scott. 



*' Mr C. Wcntworth Dilke, Baii., Ac." 



That, said Col. Scott, completes the correspondence. 

 Mr. Edgar Bowring jnst wished to add one word of conlirmation 

 on tbat correspondence. lie remembered baviug some conversation 

 with Mr. W. Wilson Saunders on the matter, and amongst other 

 things sngfrestcd was a royalty on each person entering the Gardens, 

 hut it was thought better not to interfere with the arrangements. 



Mr. Wilson' Saunders wished to observe that his name having been 

 brought forward, he wonld tell the meeting shortly what really took 

 place, and why his name had been so brought forward in the transac- 

 tion. A special meeting of the Council of the Horticultural Society 

 was summoned to consider a proposal made by the Committee of the 

 International Exhibition, and Sir Weutworth DilUo attended. The 

 matter was brought before the Council, and Sir Wentworth DilliC said 

 it would be desirable that, considering the large outlay and expenditure, 

 the Exliibition should be kept open for some days longer. The Council 

 considered that though they were not called upon to do so, yet there 

 •was even' desire and eveiy wish to serve tho Committee, as they had 

 incurrcd'great expenditure, and it was thought very nuadvisable to 

 refuse to do anything which would be likely to cause an increase of the 

 liabilities of tlie guarantors. Looking at it with that view, certain 

 proposals were made, and it was thought that they (the Horticultural 

 Societv). would treat them {the International Committee), in a lilieral 

 way, and they said that if no profit was made then the Ij^s should be 

 borne by thein ; but if they did make any prolit, tlien it was considered 

 that the Horticultural Society should in fairness rjceivo some portion 

 of that profit. As the conver.sation went on he (Mr. "Wilsim Saunders) 

 jotted down the gist of the argumeut which was carried on between the 

 Council on the one side and Sir Wentworth Dilke on the other, as al- 

 ready read by the Secretary (Col. Scott), and the memorandum was in 

 his (Mr. %Yilson Saundor.s's), own handwrituig as taken at tho time. 

 Tbat thire might be no mistake he would read it again :— " All charges 

 paid. Saturday to he half-a-crowu. Free entrance on Saturday to 

 JTcllows and transferable tickets. All money to be theirs, but in case 

 of SQi-plus a portion to be made over to the Horticultural Society." 

 Those propositions were agreed ti>, and on tliat Sir Wentworth Dilke 

 went to see his own Committee, and they (the Council) waited to meet 

 their pleasure. After some very short delay the Council were either 

 summoned or asked to go — at all events they did go to meet the Com- 

 mittee of the International Exhibition. It was a very hastily got 

 together Committee — made under the arcade, and they were very 

 anxious to have the matter settled at once, so that the bills might be 

 got out and the advertisements issued. The Committee having heard 

 the terms, agi-eed to them, and Sir Wentworth Dilke returned to the 

 Council-room, and the minutes as they were drawn up were read out. 

 That was exactly what took place as near as he (Mr. AVilsou Saundeis) 

 conld recollect. Yes, ho was sure they were read out. and tbat was 

 all that he knew about it. It was an agreement that they should 

 meet the Council in that way, and the Council would meet them. The 

 Council did so in a most straightforward, friendly, and liberal spirit, 

 and the Council now expected tho Committie of the International 

 Hoi-ticuHural Exhibition would look on the Pioyal Horticultural 

 Society in the same way (hear). 



Mr. Harry Chester viewed the letter of Sir Wentworth Dilke as 

 disclaiming his having any power to bind the body for which he was 

 acting. Ho (Mr. Harry Chester) would have thought that Sir W-Jut- 

 worth Dilke had come to the Council from his Committee to hind 

 them, and if they were not bound by his agreement, of course it never 

 took effect; but clearly there was an agi'eement, by virtue of wliich 

 the Exhibition was opened for a week louger than originally settled. 

 He (Mr. Harry Chester) supposed Sir Wentworth Dilke merely meant 

 to say that he could not bind the application of any particular portion, 

 but ho certainly did bind them as to some portion of the surplus. It 

 certainly seemed to him (Mr. Hari-y Chester) that it would be better 

 to refer the matter to some person — not necessarily a lawjer. but some 

 person possessing a legal mind, and get him to state what ought to he 

 done under the circumstances. That would bring the matter to a fair 

 and reasonable issue; for while the Council of the Koyal Hortieulturai 

 Society did not want to press their claims unduly, or accept anything 

 from the Committee of the International Horticultural Exhibition in 

 the way of charity, still the Society ought not to give up anything to 

 which they were entitled (hear, heai-). 



Blr. W. Wilson Saunders would call the last speaker's attention 

 to the fact tliat it was the correctness or the incorrectness of the 

 minutes to which Sir Wentworth Dilke referred. He impugned the 

 accuracy of them. 



The subject then dropped. 



Colonel Challoner could not hut congratulate the Society on the 

 great improvement which was visible in the financial statement, which, 

 however, he could not help observing was still simply a cash account. 



What he wanted was a little more. He wanted a statement of the liabili- 

 ties which the Societ}' was now under, that the Fellows might know how 

 ranch they were in debt. A statement was rendered in the account 

 before the Meeting of the means of repaying what they had borrowed, 

 but he (Colonel Challoner) would like to see a statement where tho 

 means of repayment were given on the dne side, and tbo amount of 

 the debt on the other. As an old member of the Society he was 

 anxious on that point ; and though he had found it was always diiH- 

 cult when he sat at the Council to obtain such a statement as he 

 wanted, he {Colonel Challoner) would only say that expenence did not 

 seem in the least to lessen the difficulty. He would respectfully suggest 

 that if His Grace the President would express a wish to the Council 

 on the subject, the Fellows would soon he furnished with a more 

 definite and clear statement of the real obligations of the Society 

 than that afforded. There was one gentleman sitting near the noble 

 President — he (Colonel Challoner) alluded to Mr. Wilson Saunders-— 

 and if that gentleman who was so useful and energetic in promoting 

 the objects of the Society would also look to the subject it would all 

 come right, and the desired information bo rendered. He (Colonel 

 Challoner) did not wish to be misunderstood in what he asked, for 

 he would say, though he wanted more (a laugli), yet the cash account 

 was very clear and better than what they had hitherto had. 



Mr. James Wheble desired to suggest that there should be some 

 alteration in the rules with regard to the Gardens at Chiswick, so 

 that the Fellows if they asked for anything, surely ought to havo 

 sometliing given to them ; not, of course, the best cuttings, but some- 

 thing. 



The Pre.^ident did not think there would he the slightest difficulty 

 in any Fellow having either buds or cuttings if they wanted them, 

 except, of course, under exceptional circumstances. It was quite 

 allowable for them to be given. 



Mr. Wheele would merely say that when his gardener went there 

 to ask for a few cuttings, he was told by the man he spoke to that it 

 was as much as his place was woi'th to give him anything. 

 i Mr. Wilson Saunders submitted that perhaps the man had not 

 any authority with him as to who he was. 



Mr. Whedle assured the worthy Member of the Council that the 

 man who gave the answer was told who it was. 

 I Mr. Wilson Saunders assured the last speaker that it was invari- 

 ' ably done — at least, such were the orders. 



! Colonel Burleton thought it right to mention that he went there 

 and was told he conld not have any cuttings, but if he chose to buy 

 I any fruit or Grapes he might do that ; but as to any cuttings being 

 I given him, that was not in the province of the gardener to whom the 

 I request was made. 



Mr. Wilson Saunders wi.shcd to Imow who his friend asked for tho 

 cuttings. 

 j Colonel BuELETON did not know the man's name. 



Mr. Wilson Saunders could only say that the last speaker should 

 ' have gone to the right person, Mr. BaiTou. 



j The President said that, as he understood the matter, any appli- 

 cation must be made to Mr. Barron, the head gardener, and none of 

 1 the under gardeners had any power or authority to give an^-thing 

 j away. His Grace felt quite sure that the members of the Society 

 would see how important it was that the sole power of giving away 

 I buds or cuttings to the Fellows should be vested in one responsible 

 I person ; but if there was any difficulty about it the Council would see 

 I into the matter and put it on the proper footing. Several important 

 . points had been raised and disr-us^ed, and now, it ha\'ing been moved 

 : that the Keport be received, would some gentleman second that propo- 

 sition? 



Colonel Challon-er had much pleasure in seconding the motion 

 that the Report be received and adopted. 



The President put the question, which was carried unanimously. 

 Major E. Trevor Clarke wished to say a few words as to the 

 Lindley Library, which he feared was likely to slip away on account of 

 lack of fnnds-^that the Society could not afford to buy it. There 

 was no doubt that it was veij valuable, not only from its own intrinsic 

 merit, hut from old associations and other causes. The Fellows 

 would remember it was not the first time the Society had been in pos- 

 session of a fine library, and he (Major Clarke) would not say that 

 they were ignomini.tusly sohl, because the sale was from a good 

 motive, but he wouiil say, for he knew it, that it went to the hearts of 

 all the members of the old Society. They had now a second chance, a 

 clwnce of obtaining a most valuable library which would be endeared 

 to them all by old as^ot-iatioiis ; and he heard mth pain and gi-ief that 

 it was proposed to sell it again, and that the Koyal Horticultural 

 Society conld not afford to buy. Now, if they were poor they were 

 honest, and as they were many so he was hopeful, and had a strong 

 belief, that there was a stern determination now to recover the fortunes 

 of the Society by energetic and well-directed economy ; but he (Major 

 Clarke) would not believe they were so poor as not "to be able to get 

 that valmtble library. They might be hard up (a laugh), but not so 

 hard up as that cams to ; and for one having the interests of the Society 

 deeply at heart, he said, not only let them keep it, but build a place 

 for it, so that they might look up to it as " household gods." The ex- 

 cellent Secretary of the Society had got them do^Ti "there," locked 

 up in a place which might be a kind of stable ; and having thena nnder 

 lock and key, he (Major Clarke) hoped he would keep them there 

 (hear). He would propose, or rather he wotild suggest, that the 



