FebruaiT 13, 1873. ] 



JOURNAL OF HORTICULTURE AND COTTAGE GARDENER. 



m 



JDr. Lyon Playfaib. — Not I, because I am only a recently- 

 appointed Commissioner. If they examined into the whole 

 case and the circumstances surrounding it, they would find there 

 was an identity of interests between the two bodies, aud if that 

 were not so, then had the negotiations failed. As to the Council, 

 he was sure they had guarded the interests of the Fellow.^ 

 carefully, and he felt certain that at to-day's Meetinf; they could 

 not get a body of men to serve them better. He thought it 

 right to let the Meeting hear both sides of the (question [loud 

 cheers], 



Mr. Habdcastle, M.P., said that as the honourable gentleman 

 who had just spoken had alluded to the document placed that 

 day in their hands, perhaps he shovild be permitted to state 

 what he understood would be the eSect of that document if its 

 proposals were carried out [hear, hear]. Everyone who knew 

 X)r. Playfair listened to him, when he spoke, with most anxious 

 and respectful attention, because everyone acquainted with him 

 knew he never talked nonsense [hear, hear]. He had hoped 

 Dr. Playfair would have said a little more about the document. 

 He told them they ought to have the greatest confidence in their 

 Council, in fact that they ought to put their heads into — he was 

 going to say — the mouths of the Council [laughter, oh ! and 

 hear]. But it did appear to him that Dr. Playfair's speech 

 went to this — that they were to take what they got, and thank 

 God for it, and not look to their own affairs in the smallest 

 degree [cheers]. It was impossible for anyone to analyse this 

 document carefully at a few minutes' notice ; but the practical 

 result of it would be that the Commissioners, whoever they 

 might be, were to pay ±'2000, which was approximately the ex- 

 penses of the Gardens at the present moment. Then they were 

 to pay not more than £'1000 over as a portion of the Exhibition 

 season tickets, which made £3000. Then they were to pay some- 

 thing, on which Dr. Playfair somewhat enlarged — a sum of 

 £4400. Now out of this £4400, a sum of £2000 was to go to some 

 sinking fund, which would be of no advantage either to the 

 Fellows or the Society, and that amount was to represent the 

 rent, which, up to the present time, they had never paid 

 [hear, hear]. The Commissioners were to pay us £4400, and 

 'the Society was to pay £2400 — the receipts in the Gardens, and 

 a Bum of nearly £4000, beingabout half the annual subscriptions, 

 And the cousetjuence would be a loss to the Society of about 

 .^1000 a-year. That was his view, and if he was mistaken he 

 should be happy to have himself set right. He should be glad 

 to have the Gardens kept separated from the Exhibitions, for he 

 looked upon these Exhibitions as the most unmixed nuisances 

 «ver invented [hear, no, and laughter]. Tradesmen looked 

 upon them iu the same light, and he believed the Exhibitions 

 Wrtuld drag their slow course along for a few years, and then die 

 of inanition [hear, and a laugh]. Without pretending to the 

 gift of prophecy, he looked forward to the entire loss of their 

 arcades, and most of all to the loss of their liberty ; and he most 

 strongly protested against putting himself, as one of the Fellows 

 of the Society, under the hands of the Commissioners. On 

 these grounds he protested against the receipt and adoption of 

 the Report [cheers]. 



Mr. BoHN said a great disposition existed to have a little more 

 strength infused into the Council. They had more of the 1851 

 men than of really practical men ; and as one of the old mem- 

 fcers of the Society he very strongly felt the object for which he 

 .associated himself with it had not been carried out, because, 

 instead of having such Gardens aa a horticultural society should 

 have, they had these puppet-shows, which were every day 

 getting worse. He now rose to move, that instead of Lord 

 Alfred Churchill and Major Trevor Clarke, there should be 

 elected as members of the Council the Bev. S. Reynolds Hole 

 and Mr. B. S. WiUiams [cheers]. 



Mr. Bateman said no person could have any objection to 

 either Mr. Hole or Mr. Williams, but the question was whether 

 Xord A. Churchill would or would not be an acquisition to the 

 Council. It was not against him that he was not a horticul- 

 turist, as he could assure the Meeting, after ten years' work at 

 the Council, that if they were all horticulturists they could 

 not get on with the work at all [laughter]. They had a speci- 

 anen that day of the great variety of topics non-horticultural 

 which pressed upon the attention of the Council. Lord 

 A. Churchill was historically connected with horticulture, his 

 brether the Duke of Marlborough and two former Dukes of 

 Marlborough having been connected with plants [laughter]. As 

 regarded Lord Londesborough, he attended once, but he had 

 also attended by proxy and sent up the most magnificent lot of 

 Orchids ever seen [laughter, and cries of question]. 



The Chairman said he should now, after the explanations 

 ^ven by Dr. Playfair and his other colleagues, have remained 

 silent if he had not thought he should be wanting in respect to 

 the Meeting if he did not express his entire concurrence iu the 

 reports they had made. In the first place, he wished to do most 

 ample justice to the tone and moderate manner in which the 

 amendment had been brought forward. He considered the 

 manner in which the amendment was introduced and seconded 

 did credit to the general body of the Fellows of the Horticul- 



tural Society [hear, hear]. It was most gratifying for the 

 Council to be able in the same tone to say they were, as they 

 always had been, anxious to steer the interests of the Fellows 

 through a difficult and intricate channel. Here he might say, 

 with reference to an allusion by a gentleman that exhibitions 

 were dechniug, and that the power of the Commissioners to ter- 

 minate the arrangements was a one-sided bargain, and that ex- 

 hibitions might drag on their existence for only two years^ 

 surely there could be no great fear of the Commissioners 

 putting an end to the lease if they could only survive for two 

 years [laughter]. He was sorry to hear that some persons 

 calling themselves "gentlemen" had the other day smoked in 

 the faces of ladies. Now it was not necessary to point out that 

 these " gentlemen" could have had nothing to do with the Exhi- 

 bition, as it was closed in the month of September. He quite 

 agreed that the privacy of the Gardens was not what it was 

 before the establishment of the Exhibition ; but at the same 

 time it was certainly preferable that the Society should have 

 carried on its work and redeemed its debts without having re- 

 ference to the Commissioners of 1851; but it was in one of those 

 positions in which finance arbitrarily stepped in and. insisted 

 upon us accepting conditions not so pleasant as they might 

 have been if it were not for the pecuniary diificulties. He 

 would only just point out that the Gardens had heeu only 

 able to pay their rent for two years, and these were the 

 two years of the Exhibitions. 'Taking up the amendment, 

 his lordship said that, aa regarded the first sentence — that the 

 meeting looked to the Council to protect their rights and privi- 

 leges — he begged to toll Sir Alfred Slade that the Council were 

 entirely in accord with him on that point, and were most 

 anxious to protect the rights and privileges of the Fellows. As 

 to the exclusion of the pubUc, at present there was a sixpenny 

 day, but under a new resolution that would be done away with, 

 and there would be no lower admission to the Gardens than Is. 

 Then, as regarded the use of all the entrances, Mr. Saunders 

 had told them that all the entrances, except one, were not the 

 property of the Society, and the only chance they had of getting 

 other entrances was by acting cordially and on amicable terms, 

 and trying to exercise their influence on the friendly spirit 

 and courtesy of the Commissioners of 1851. As to the opening 

 and closing of the Gardens, ha was sure the object iu view would 

 have been accomplished long ago if any Fellow had made a 

 private representation to the Council. Then, as to Mr. Bohn's 

 remarks about increasing the practical element in the Council, 

 aud eliminating what he (the Chairman), called the " west-end" 

 element ; he could assure the Meeting that ho had remained in 

 the Council in consequence of repeated representations that he 

 should not desert them in the midst of their difficulties ; but he 

 placed his seat at the Board at the disposal of any other gentle- 

 man who might be selected and be more worthy of their con- 

 fidence [no]. In conclusion his lordship said he was ready to 

 resign his seat, and that would enable them to place Lord 

 Londesborough and Lord A. Churchill, who said he was most 

 anxious to take a practical part in the business, upon the Council. 

 Sir C. Dadbeney wished to ask whether a special meeting 

 would be called to acquaint the Fellows what they proposed to 

 do upon the letter of the Commissioners [cheers]. 



Professor Tennant remarked that the Zoological Society 

 would be bankrupt if it did not give great privileges to the 

 public. One-third of the income came from the ordinary 

 sources, one-third from the Is. admissions ; but by far the largest 

 third came from the sixpenny admissions. 



Mr. Clutton wished to bring one view of the financial posi- 

 tion before the Meeting. According to the letter the Council 

 were to pay £4400— £2400 in the form of rent, and £2000 towards 

 paying oft the debenture debt. They were also to pay a further 

 sum of £2000, or such sum as would be represented by half their 

 annual admission tickets. That amounted to £G200, and then 

 the Commissioners took upon themselves the maintenance, 

 repairs, and rates and taxes of the Gardens, and that sum 

 amounted to about £4200. The Society expended upon horticul- 

 ture, including Chiswick, about £(iOI)(J, and upon these Gardens 

 a sum of about £400(3, and it was that £4000 which the Royal 

 Commissioners excluded from half the annual subscriptions, 

 BO that it might be assumed that they got from the aunual sub- 

 scriptions a sum equal to the maintenance of the gardens [hear, 

 hear]. It was said that, supposing the arrangements to be 

 carried out, the Society would be losers. He could assure the 

 Meeting he had paid great attention to the subject, and he had 

 no doubt that by means of the arrangement the Society would 

 be iu a better position by £1000 per annum than it was at the 

 present time ; and in addition to that, the Society would pay its 

 rent of £2400 a-year, and also place £2000 a-year towards the 

 redemption of the debenture debt. It should be recollected that 

 the Society was in full enjoyment of the Gardens, and if it had 

 not been for the Royal Commissioners they would not be in 

 possession of them now under lease, because the lease would 

 have lapsed by reason of the non-payment of rent, according to 

 a provision in the lease. Were the gentlemen present prepared 

 to give up these Gardens if they did not pay their rent ? 



