September 2. 18G9. ] 



JOURNAL OP HORTICULTURE AND COTTAGE GARDENER. 



185 



Are yon tlie senior partner in that firm ? — I am the active partner 

 in the firm. 



May I ask how long yon have been in the business ? — Our firm has 

 been in business about live years. I have been in business about 

 twenty years: fifteen years, with my step-father, the late Mr. Waite, 

 and five years as the active partner and manager of the present fijm. 



You do, I think a very large trade ? — Yob. 



Probably one of the largest in London ? — About one of the largest. 



Is your trade confined to the United Kingdom ? — No; oar trade is 

 in England, Ireland, Scotland, Wales, America, and in various parts 

 of the world. 



I think, also, that your business is not confined to any one descrip- 

 tion of seeds ? — We are not largely engaged in the Clover seed trade. 

 I do not profess to be an authority on the Clover seed ; our trade is 

 principally confined to Turnip seed, Mangold Wurtzel, and garden 

 seeds generally; Clover seed, Flax seed, bird seed, and seeds of those 

 kinds, we do little or nothing in. 



Have you for some time past set your face against these practices of 

 adulteration ? — As far as I have been able to do so, I have. 



Are you able generally to confirm what Mr. Sharpe and Mr. 

 Kennedy have told us as to the practice of killing and colouring seeds ? 

 — Generally, I think that I can confirm all that was said by those 

 gentlemen. 



Particularly as far as regards Turnip seed ? — Yes. 



And that that has been the practice for many years past '? — It 

 has. 



lu fact, as long as yon have been acqaainted with the trade ? — I'es. 



Should you say, generally, that the large wholesale houses are 

 anxious to get rid of the practice, but have it forced upon them by the 

 competition that they have been subjected to ? — I should say that they 

 are very anxious to get rid of it. 



I think that you are one of the gentlemen who signed a memorial on 

 the 2"2nd of June to the President of the Board of Trade ? — I did sign it 

 with great reluctance. 



Will you just look at that, and see if it is a correct copy {handing a 

 2>aper to the Witness) ? — I should say that this is a copy of it ; I was 

 the last to sign it ; and my reason for signing it was, simply, that 

 there should be unanimity among the Loudon seedsmen. Although I 

 signed it, I certainly had a strong opinion that the memorial, so far as 

 the bill is concerned, would be of very little good indeed. 



Will yon read that memorial ?— '* To the Right Honourable John 

 Bright, M.P. Adulteration of Seeds Bill. London, 2'2nd June, 1869. 

 Sir, — We, the undersigned seed merchants, beg respectfully to suggest 

 that from the difficulty of proof that genuine seeds have been mixed 

 with killed or dyed seeds, and that deficiency of growth may arise from 

 outavourable seasons for maturing seeds, bad harvests, or heating in 

 the stack. It would simplify the bill and render it much more effective 

 by expunging the clauses 4 and 5 ; this would afford protection to the 

 merchant against being charged by any unprincipled party ' who could 

 not pay his account, or the market had gone against him,' with having 

 sold adulterated seed. That in clause 7, for whosoever shall be con- 

 victed ' of any offence against this Act,' substitute ' of killing or dyeing 

 seed, or knowingly shall import killed or dyed seed.' Thus altered the 

 clause woald read, ' Whosoever shall be convicted of killing or dyeing 

 seed, or knowingly shall import killed or dyed seed, shall, for every 

 such offence,' &c. This would, in the opinion of the undersigned, 

 effectually put an end to the manufacture of killed and dyed seed, as 

 no party would like to subject himself to being informed against by 

 any person who is or may have been in his employ. We have the 

 hoQOor to remain, your very obedient servants, Minier, Nash, & Nash, 

 60, Strand, London ; Ratley & Silverlock, 412, Strand ; Eraser, Goad, 

 and Ratford. 82. Bishopsgate Street Within; James Carter &; Co., 

 237, and 238, High Holborn ; Hurst & Son, 6, Leadenhall Street; 

 Charlwood & Cummina. 14, Tavistock Row, Covent Garden ; Henry 

 Clarke & Sons, 39, King Street, Covent Garden ; Robert Cooper, 152, 

 Fleet Street ; Beck, Henderson, & Child, 221, and 222, Upper Thames 

 Street; Waite, Bumell, Sc Co.. Southwark Street. S.E. ; Nutting and 

 Sons, 60, Barbican, E.G." Will you allow me to say that Messrs. 

 Nutting & Son were not present, but they signed the memorial after 

 the meeting? 



Are you still of the same opinion as is expressed in that memorial, 

 as to the difficulty of detecting killed seeds ? — No, I am of a con- 

 trary opinion. 



In fact, then, you agree rather with the evidence that has been given 

 to thi? Committee that the presence of killed seed can be detected with 

 great facility and certainty ? — Yes. 



And do you still hold the opinions expressed in that memorial, that 

 the bill would, with the clauses 4 and 5 expunged, be effective for all 

 the purposes for which it is desired? — I did not agree witli that me- 

 morial at all. I signed it merely that there should be unanimity 

 amongst the London seedsmen ; but I do not agree that the omission 

 of those clauses would be effective. 



If the bill was confined to the third clause simply, the killing and 

 dyeing of the seed, it would virtually result merely in a transfer of the 

 scene of adalteration ? — Y'es. it would amount to this, that once get 

 killed seed by any means, and let it pass through two or three dealers' 

 hands, it would then come into the hands of the miser, the person 

 who would mix the seed, aud I take it that you could not then convict 

 tliat man for selling mixed seeds. 



With regard to including dead seed in the provisions of the bill, did 



you hear the evidence that was given by Mr. Murray ? — Yes ; but I 

 could not follow it exactly. 



Perhaps you have not had an opportunity of seeing that evidence 

 since ? — I have not. 



To put it shortly, are you of opinion that it would be possible to 

 compel the seller to give a guarantee that his seed should germinate a 

 certain per-centage, and to make him liable to a penalty if it did not 

 come up to that per-centage ? — I think that it would be utterly impossible, 

 because some seeds in the autumn may produce a good growth, say 

 90 per cent., or 80 per cent., or any given per-centage, and in the 

 spring the same seeds very likely would fall off in growth ; so that if 

 we were to give a guarantee with each parcel, we should have to try oar 

 seeds every week, and even then oue could not be ijuite sure. 



In fact, you would say that that was not the suggestion of a practical 

 man ? — It is quite impracticable. 



We have had a great deal of evidence about Turnip seed and Clover 

 seed ; but I should like to ask you whether there are any other vege- 

 table seeds in which this practice of adulteiation exists to any extent ? 

 — Yes ; Cabbage seed. Broccoli, CauUtlower, Kale, aud all round seeds, 

 the killed seeds of which could be easily detected, as in Turnip seeds. 



And do you think that the injury to the consumer by tlie adulteration 

 of them is as large in proportion to the extent of the seed used as it is 

 in the branches of which we have heard so much ? — I should say more 

 so, because take, for instance. Cabbage and Caulifiower ; the seeds are 

 sown in beds for plants, and all those plants are wanted, either for 

 transplanting where they are to become vegetables, or to sell as plants, 

 aud, of course, the fewer the seeds whi:;h grow the fewer the plants ; 

 consequently, the loss to the gardener would be greater in proportion 

 than in the case of Turnip seed. 



You mean that in the case of a field sown with Turnip seed, if 70 or 

 80 per cent, comes np, it is probably sufficient for the farmer for 

 practical purposes ? — Y'es. 



But that in the case of a market gardener he requires 100 per cent. ? 

 He requires all the plants he can get from the seed. 



Mangold Wurtzel is an important seed in agriculture ; is that adul- 

 terated within your knowledge ? — It is adulterated. 



By what means ? — Common kinds, of Sugar Beet, for instance, may 

 be killed and mixed with Mangold seeds, or a bad stock of Mangold 

 Wurtzel may be killed and mixed with a better kind. I think that is 

 about all I Imow of it. 



Should you say that Mangold Wurtzel seed is regularly adulterated 

 every year, or does it vary according to the season ? — It would vary 

 according to the season, because some Mangold Wurtzel in a bad 

 autumn is of a very inferior quality indeed, and, in fact, we have 

 known Mangold Wurtzel seed in some seasons to be of such quality as 

 to be scarcely saleable by a merchant, and then oue or two-year-old 

 seed would be preferable. 



An honourable member spoke the other day about Onion seed being 

 killed occasionally; can you tell me whether that can be discovered? 

 — It can. 



By the same test ? — No ; the only means I think that we should 

 have would be by tasting the flavour of the seed, besides of course test- 

 ting it in soil ; the flavour of new Onion seed is very strong inleed. 

 The killed Onion seed has not the Onion seed flavour at all, but a 

 burnt flavour. 



As to the flower seeds, seeds used in flower gardens, is there much 

 killing in regard to them? — Not much. 



Aud you would not consider it of the same importance to include 

 them in the bill ?— I should not ; I should consider them of very little 

 importance. 



And perhaps the practice will be not so easily detected, even where 

 it is carried on? — Well, I should say it would scarcely be detected; it 

 is of such little moment that I do not think much attention has been 

 paid to the adulteration of flower seeds. 



Can yon recall any other sorts of seeds besides those which yon have 

 mentioned, in which adulteration is carried on to any extent? — To a 

 limited extent Radish may be adulterated ; but it is easily detected, 

 even though it is adulterated to a very small extent. 



The list you have given me comprises, virtually, all the seeds in 

 which adulteration is carried on extensively? — Yes. 



Mr. Shaw-Lefevbe. — You come here, principally, with the pur- 

 pose of withdrawing your name from this memorial, which has been 

 presented to the Board of Trade, against certain portions of the bill ? 

 — I am not aware of that. 



I understood you to say that you no longer agree with that memorial ? 

 — Decidedly so. 



You signed your name to it on the 22nd of June, not agreeing with 

 the terms of it'? — Yes. Allow me to say that there were two other firms 

 who likewise signed that memorial, but who protested against it as 

 being weak and ineffectual ; those firms are Hurst it Son, and Carter 

 and Company. 



At all events you yourself signed it without agreeing with its terms . 

 — Y'es. 



And you now come for the purpose of saying that you do not agree 

 with its terms, and that you are in favour of the bill as it stands . — i 

 am in favour of the bill as it stands. 



You stated that your reason for signing the memorial was that there 

 might be a unanimity in the trade? — Y'es. 



You signed one of the last with that view ? — Yes. 



Then you had found that at that time there was aomething lika 



