September 16, 1869. ] : 



JOURNAL OF HORTICULTQRE AND COTTAGE GARDENER. 



223 



where is the (Usa(lvanta;:;e in the employment of killed seed to prodnce 

 that average? — I do not think there is any disadvantage whatever. 



Then why would yon legislate against killed seed and not le^jislate 

 against reducing the average hy old or naturally dead seed ? — I do not 

 think that that is in the clause at all. 



This clause is confined to killed seed ? — Yes. 



But where is the disadvantage to the farmer if he wishes to produce 

 a general average of neiug the killed seed for that purpose? — It is a 

 disagreeable practice, no doubt of it, although it is attended with 

 convenience ; I myself detest it. 



What is the difference to the farmer between using killed seed to 

 reduce seed of 90 per cent, to 75 per cent., and using old seed to reduce 

 it to 75 per cent. ? — Xo difference. 



Then if the killed seed produce no disadvantage to the farmer, why 

 legislate against it ? — I consider it to be a disagreeable practice, and I 

 would rather see it done away with. 



But you would still, as a seedsman, allow yourself to mis bad seed 

 with good, to reduce it to an average ? — I would not say bad seed, but 

 old seed ; there are individuals who wish to sell, and parties who wish 

 to buy cheap, and below what you may call a fair market price, and it 

 gives those parties an opportunity, by reducing that seed, instead of 

 sending it out at 75, to send it out at 50 per cent. ; I want to put a 

 stop to that kind of thing, and to have the trade carried on in a more 

 legitimate way. 



Would yon have an objection to warranting the standard of germinat- 

 ing power with rega'-d to different seeds? — I do not think it can be 

 carried out ; so mach depends on those who test seed, the soil it is tried 

 in, and the attention that is paid to it. If a man puts a little too much 

 water, it may turn some seeds into a jelly. It is men, whose business 

 it is to try these seeds, who will do it with accuracy ; it may answer all 

 the purposes which a farmer may require to put the seed in a flower 

 pot, and I wish that every farmer would do so. 



To whoso advantage is this Act to be, to that of the farmer or to that 

 of the seller of the seed ? — I do not know that it is a particular 

 advantage to either one or the other ; I believe one thing, that the 

 fanner gets now regularity of crops ; I believe that under a different 

 system, in some seasons, when there have been two successive failures, 

 lie would get a very inferior growth ; he does not pay for his seed now 

 what he wonlJ do if he had it to grow loO per cent. 



But will he derive any more advantage ii an Act is passed to prevent 

 MUed seed being used for the purpose of reduction, than he does now, 

 because you may use inferior seed for the purposes of reduction, may 

 yon not ? — You may do it, certainly. 



We are supposing that this Act is for the benefit of the farmer, do 

 you see any likelihood of the fanrer obtaining any such advantage ? — 

 I think it would be decidedly in his favour ; that he would get seed of 

 a larger growth than he does now, upon an average. 



But I thought you said the object of seed-sellers was to reduce the 

 seed to a. general average by mixing the seed ? — That is the object, no 

 doubt; the farmer would otherwise get for two or three years conse- 

 cutively, perhaps, a good growth, and then for two or three j'ears a bad 

 growth. 



Do you think that he would get true net seed, unmixed with inferior 

 seed, if this Act were passed ? — I think that he would get old seed mixed 

 with the newer. 



Seed producing a general average ? — Yes. 



Then I do not see where the farmer is to obtain much advantage ? — ■ 

 Not a very considerable advantage, I do not think he would ; I say that 

 the practice of using killed seed is a nasty practice. 



But does the kUled seed in the slightest degree interfere with, the 

 vitality of the other seed ? — Not in the elighicst. 



Where then is the disadvantage to the farmer of getting the same aver- 

 age by killed seed as by seed of an inferior growth, supposingyou reduce 

 it to 75 per cent, in both cases ? — There is not the slightest difference. 



Mr. Cross. — You sell both wholesale and retail? — I do. 



Do you ever sell seeds, what they call net ? — Yes. 



When is it you sell seeds net ? — Where they inquire of the travellers 

 for it. It is well known that seeds are sent out in the ordinary way, 

 what you may term a fair average growth, and of course every man who 

 has been in the trade knows that in some years seeds will grow much 

 better than in others, and he trusts to the seedsman he deals with to 

 send him a fair average quality; but if that man had stock on hand 

 below an average growth, he would say "Mr. Nash, will you send me 

 an extra quality, and I will pay an extra price for it ?" 



When the retail dealer has some old seed he wants to improve, he 

 asks for net seed ? — Yes. 



But do you ever sell net seed under any circumstances as net seed ? 

 — Not unless they pay a different price. 



Do you ever sell net seed to a retail man ? — Y'es. 



If I were to write op from the country for Turnip seed, would you 

 send me net or adulterated ? — I would send net as a rule ; I might not 

 send you all new seed. 



But no killed seed ? — No killed seed ; it is always net seed in Turnip 

 seed that we send out to private gentlemen. 



But not to the retail dealer ? — No. 



But why am I not to have the benefit, as a private gentleman, of 

 the average growth, as well as the farmer ? — You would have it. 



Then (to put it in another way) why should not the farmer have the 

 same benefit of average growth as I have ? — If the farmer applied to 

 me he would get it ; but the farmer does not apply to me. 



Will yon tell me where is the injustice yon speak of in this Bill ; you 

 say that it would be unjust, do you not ? — Unjust with regard to charges 

 that might be made against individuals for selling seed that was 

 adulterated. 



Supposing a charge was made, and the case not made out, what 

 injury would happen then ? — You cannot go before a magistrate without 

 having your name paraded in the country newspapers; and people 

 naturally say, " Where there is smoke there is fire," and it would be 

 exceedingly annoying to be taken down to Cornwall, say, with your 

 books, to prove that that seed was as you imported it. 



You would rather keep away from the magistrate altogether ? — ^Tes. 



You say that your great object in the seed trade is to give a fair 

 average growth ? — Y'es. 



In Turnip seed you put that at SO and 90 per cent. ? — Taking this 

 year I should question if it would come to that. 



At all events your object is to put it down to the very minimum 

 average growth, that is to say, to make it as much adulterated as you 

 can ? — You can more easily do that than the other way ; you can carry 

 on your business more conveniently in that way ; you cannot increase 

 your growth, but you can decrease it. 



Supposing that there is an increase of growth in any one year, does 

 not that make a difference in the mixture you put in ? — Yes. 



But if there were a small quantity of good growth in one year you 

 would still adulterate it, in order to meet the demand ? — If thtre were 

 a small quantity of good seed, you would have to spread it all over the 

 country. 



But it would never enter your head to say that the growth of seed 

 was so small one year that you could not meet the demand? — Yes ; if 

 all new seed was required, sometimes, if you were to give gold, you 

 could not have it. 



Do you, as a matter of practice, ever give out that you have no seed? 

 — No ; because I can generally get it from a trader ii I have not got it 

 myself. 



If there is a deficiency in the gi-owth of one year, is it not the practice 

 of the trade to makfi it more plentiful by reducing it with the seed of 

 old years ? — No, that has not been so to my knowledge, because of seed 

 that will grow for three or four years there is generally a pretty good 

 stock. 



Now, you stated that you wanted to mend this Bill. Will yon tell us 

 how you want to mend the Bill ? — The memorial which I drew out, and 

 which has been read to you, expresses my view ; I gave to each, party 

 who attended the meeting a copy of it. I want to make clause 7 run 

 thus : — " Whosoever shall be convicted of killing or dyeing seed, or know- 

 ingly shall import killed or dyed seed, shall for every such offence," &c. 



AU you want to affect by the Bill is the actual killing of the seed, or 

 dyeing it, or importing killed or dyed seed ? — Yes. 



Dr. Lyon Playfair has asked you several questions on this point, why 

 is it better for the farmer that killed seed should be prohibited than old 

 worthless seed. Can you say why? — I do not think that it would be 

 any better. 



But you have also said that if killed seed were not allowed to be used, 

 old seed would certainly be used, in order to keep up the average 

 growth ? — It would, so long as old seed existed. 



Then I want to know, as Dr. Lyon Playfair wanted to know, what 

 would be the benefit which the farmer would get from killed seed being 

 prohibited? — Between using killed and old seed, I do not, think that 

 there would be any benefit at first. 



When would he get benefit ? — Perhaps some years hence, when the 

 old stock is eshaasted. 



In your opinion there is a great quantity of old seed still in the 

 country? — Of some sorts ; I think that there is a very small stock of 

 Turnip seed ; of other seeds there is a relatively large stock. 



And in your opinion it is just as injurious to the farmer to have this 

 old worthless seed mixed up as killed seed ? — Yes. 



Do not you think, therefore, that in the first clause of this Bill words 

 should be introduced to prohibit the mixing of old worthless seed, as 

 well as killed sted ? — Where are you to draw the line ? 



Old worthless seed, practically dead seed, I mean? — Well, I do not 

 think you would get such a thing ; they will not allow it to get dead. 



Inferior seed, seed of 5 or 10 or 15 per cent, growth ?^There is 

 virtually no gi-eat difference whether a man uses that or uses killed seed. 



De. Playfaip.. — Is it not a fact that the qualities of seed are con- 

 tinually varying according to the harvest, and the climate, and the 

 coniitions of giowth? — Undoubtedly so. 



Then is it not the fact that there will always be inferior seed which 

 you can use to mis with the superior ssed ? It is not the question of 

 using up of old stock, but is it not the fact that inferior seed will 

 constantly be gro^vn under vai7ing conditions of climate and of harvest ? 

 — Undoubtedly. 



Then the farmer still might have the seed, whether for hisbenefit or 

 not, reduced to an average by that inferior seed being used to mix with 

 the superior, even though the old stock were exhausted ? — Y'es. 



And different placts in the same year may prodnce seeds of different 

 growth ? — Yes, more especially upon heavy lauds ; last year upon 

 heavy lands Onion seed grew belter than I ever knew it in my Ufe, 

 *HJ and 95 per cent. This year, in all probabihty, the seed will not ripen 

 till the month of October, when we often get autumn frost, and it may 

 not grow 2ij per cent. 



And you would use that seed to mis with the higher quality? — We 

 should use the last year's growth to mix with that if we could do it.\ , 



