September 16, 1869. j 



JOURNAL OF HOBTIOULTURE AND COTTAGE GARDENER. 



225 



conld I gnarantee it ? I coald only say that, according to my books, 

 my seed would grow so-and-so ; but I would not guarantee for yon to 

 make it grow. Ask any f;entlemau"s gardener how he makes seed grow 

 cue time and not another. Give half-a-dozen people samples out of 

 one lot of seed, and I have no hesitation in saying that you will find a 

 difiference of 10 or 15 per cent., according to the different seeds that 

 are sown from the same sample. It is a most difficult thing, and the 

 seed trade is one of the most difficult trades that I know. 



Mr. CoGAN. — Do you believe that it is difficult to distiuguish arti- 

 ficially k-illed Turnip seed from Turnip seed that has become naturally 

 dead ?— I think that it is. to a great extent. Seed may get a nasty 

 sweat on the barn floors. That is where it is more injured than in any 

 other way : particularly where large fjuantities of Turnip seed are grown 

 and they have very little bam room, that seed does get damaged more in 

 that way thiiu in any other. If you go to Romney Marsh, there are 

 hundreds, and, perhaps thousands, of acres grown, and in that whole 

 district yon hardly see a barn. 



By crashing, is it not possible to distinguish artificially killed seed 

 from naturally dead seed? — I do not think that yon can distinguish it 

 with a certainty ; I tbiuk that yoa may get a jjretty fair idea of it, but 

 not to distinguish it with certainty. 



Have yon tried that as a test yourself '? — Yes. 



Do yon use it as a test of the seeds that you buy ? — I cannot say that 

 I do, for I never have any doubt of them ; I not think that the growers 

 that we deal with would be likely to have any killed seed to mix with it. 



Are the seeds that yon sell exclusively seeds that you buy from the 

 growers, or do you buy killed seeds and mis them with the other seeds ■/ — 

 I have admitted that fact, that we do it to reduce the average sometimes. 



Yon think that it is difficult to distinguish the artificially killed 

 from the naturally dead ? — I do ; in regard to Clover seed, I may say 

 that I am not much in the Clover seed trade, hut I think that if you 

 get a small sample of what is called Red Clover of foreign growth, a 

 f^eat many of those seeds are exceedingly small and scarcely any 

 larger than Trefoil seed, and a person's eyes must be much better than 

 mine to tell the difference ; and then what man on earth can tell 

 whether White Clover is adulterated by looking at it, when only a small 

 per-centage of coloured is used ? 



Mr. Pell. — Did I rightly understand yon to say that it is the practice 

 of the trade to sell all the seed as near as possible with one average 

 germinating power ? — That is my pi-actice, and I believe it is the prac- 

 tice of other houses. 



And that that is done for expediency, in order that the farmer or 

 gardener may know about what to expect from the seed that is furnished 

 to him ? — Most decidedly. 



And, so far as the matter of expediency goes, you would not object 

 to have some old or killed seed in order to reduce some very good seed 

 down to the standard ? — That is my present system. 



Yoa know something about seed-growing yourself; does not the 

 amount of germinating seed in any sample depend very much upon the 

 way in which the seed is dressed ? — Yes. 



Would it not be possible to dresa inferior seed np to a sample, as well 

 as to tone good seed down to a sample ? — Not altogether. 

 Nearly so'' — Not in an unfavourable season. 



Is it not the practice in the growth of Turnip seed, that when they 

 are dressing, theie are two samples made of it — namely, the head which 

 is the very beit, and then the next quality which would have vitality in 

 it» but not to the same amount as the head ? — Xo ; I think that yoa are 

 erroneoasly informed there. 



I have grown several hundredweight of it myself. Y'on do not think 

 that it conld be as well dressed up ? — You could not improve that by 

 dressing o per cent., I should think. 



I want to know whether it would not be possible by giving extra dress- 

 ing to the seed in a bad year to bring it up to the standard, instead of 

 doing what is the practice of the trade — namely, reducing the seed down 

 to a sample '.* — Xo ; it must he in a very extreme case indeed that that 

 conld occur. It could only be where seed was very much blighted ; 

 then you might, by extra dressing, bring it up to a better growth. But 

 yon can never make a bad sample grow well. 



Then, putting honesty out of the question, and going to expediency 

 and practice, it would hardly be possible, without killed seed, to sell 

 stock that should average 75 per cent. ? — I do not think it would. 



What would the trade do, supposing that this Bill became law, when 

 they were deprived of those means of bringing their seed down to a 

 particular standard *.' — I think that there would be a certain amount of 

 inconvenience ; the farmer at some time would get much thicker crops 

 than at others. 



Then though you are against the morals of the practice, you think 

 that there is some expediency in it? — There is some expediency in it. 



Mr. Brand. — I understand you to say that speaking as a seed mer- 

 chant, yoa aro auxious for legislation on this question in the seed 

 trade? — In the first instance, I did not think legislation necessary. I 

 thought that the trade had worked very well for a great many years, 

 and that those who sold a good article had retained their customers. 



But on second thoughts you have come round to the view that it 

 would be desirable to legislate on the subject ? — The view that I take 

 is this, that there has been so much said about it. and that so many 

 questions might arise, that I should rather have the operation com- 

 pletely taken out of onr hands by making it penal to kill or colour seeds. 

 Several questions have been asked you with regard to the interest of 

 the farmers in this matter ; I presume that the farmers are very much 



like other people in this respect, that when they bay an article they 

 wish to have it genuine ? — Yes. 



There are two ways of toning down seed, one is by introducing lolled 

 seed, and the other by introducing old or dead seed ? — Y'es. 



The supply of killed seed is almost without limit, is it not ? — Yes. 

 But the supply of old seed is comparatively small? — Yes. 

 And you as a seed merchant, are very anxious to reduce as much as 

 you can the supply of old seed in your warehouse, I presume? — Yes, I am. 

 And therefore in the course of a short time, if this BiU were passed, 

 and the supplv of killed seed were stopped, you would have very little 

 old seed to fall back npon ? — Very little. 



Chais^ian. — I think that yoa were formerly a miller at Biggleswade ? 

 No, but my father was. 



You yourself have been in the seed trade for forty years, yon have 

 told us? — Yes. 



And for twenty-one years of that time you have been chairman of the 

 trade association ? — Yes. 



Do you remember receiving a letter from Mr. Sharpe, of Sleaford, 

 addressed to you, urging upon the trade that it was time to abandon the 

 system of adulteration now in practice ? — I do. 



* And I think in consequence of that a meeting of certain members of 

 the trade was called, you being one of them ? — Yea. 



And his proposition was favourably entertained ? — Well, we heard 

 what he had to say. 



And you agreed with him generally in the expediency of patting an 

 end to the system of adulteration ? — Not at that time. 



The meeting was adjourned to lay it more generally before the trade ? 

 — The meeting was adjourned to the ^'^nd of .June. 



By way of laying his proposals before the whole of the London trade ? 

 — Yes. 



And when the 22nd of June came you were the chairman of the 

 meeting. I think ? — Y'^es. 



I think a resolution was then pasped condemning the use of killed 

 seed?— Y'es; the minute of that was to this effect: "The Committee 

 have become aware, in their investigations, that a system has been 

 carried on which they consider prejudicial to the interests of the seed 

 trade, and recommend that every means should be used to prevent 

 further use of prepared seed for adulteration."' 



And it is very much en the proceedings of that meeting that the pre- 

 sent Bill has been introduced into Parliament ?— Well, I cannot say 

 that : I must tell you very candidly that I have told Jlr. Sharpe more 

 than one or twice that I did not think the project would be can'ied out 

 with any probability of success. 



Mr. Brand. — Did you approve of that resolution to which you have 

 referred ? — Yes. 



You were chairman of the meeting ? — Yes. 



Yoa did not express any dissent?— It was the sense of the meeting, and 

 I approved of it to that extent. 



Ch-URMAN.— You have told us candidly that it has been your practice* 

 during the whole of the time that you have been in business, to reduce 

 your seeds down to a certain growth ? — Yes. 



That is, in other words, to adulterate them? — Yes. 

 Have you continned that practice up to this season ? — I have. 

 Using killed seeds, or simply inferior seeds ?— Principally the lower 

 class seed ; but I have used killed seed too. 



Nevertheless, I think that you told the honourable member for 

 South-west Lancashire, that if a customer wrote to you for seed, with- 

 out giving any special orders, you would send him net seed ? — I said a 

 private customer. 



Then you draw a distinction between a private customer and a 

 customer in the trade ? — Y'es. 



If a customer in the trade had written to you, without giving special 

 instructions, you would have sent him seed which the trade term " seed 

 as the trade use it ? "—Yes ; seed of the average growth and quality. 

 That average being in some cases reduced by the use of killed seed ? 



What should you say would be about the average which yon generally 

 used, about 75 per cent. ?— About 75 for some sorts. For some sorts 

 you cannot get that average. Mangold, I suppose, would be 100 per cent. 



If the retail dealer wished to buy net seed of you, he would not get 

 it unless he specially stated that he wished it ? — No. 



Are you aware whether Melon seed is evtr adulterated ? — It would 

 not be worth while. All the Melon seed that you would sell would not 

 be more than two or three pounds a-year. I can answer the question 

 so far that I never knew it killed. 



I suppose that you consider that selling to the retailer in the way in 

 which you have mentioned is scarcely a fraud, inasmuch as it is the 

 recognised custom of the trade, and the dealer would be able to a certam 

 extent, by his own knowledge, to protect himself ?— Unquestionab^ so. 



Are you of opinion that'the retail dealers as a rule have a sufficient 

 knowledge to be able to distinguish pure seed from adulterated : —Only 

 hv trial ; proof of growth. 



"And with regard to trial, they have no special advantages over tbe 

 farmer or the eventual consumer of the seed ?— A great number of the 

 seedsmen who use it are nurserymen who have every advantage, hot- 

 houses, and so on. o c *. *i, t 



A great many are gi-ccers, and ironmongers, and soon.— But tnat 

 chiefly applies to the Clover trade ; it does not apply so much to our 

 trade. .... , 



You have said that yon have been in the habit of mixing your seed 



