Ill 



JODKNAL OP HORTICULTUBE AND COTTAGE GARDBNEE. 



[ Febraary 11, 1875. 



the polished surface of the skating rink [laughter]. He had no 

 hostile feeling towards the Coancil, and he did not speak in a 

 hostile spirit, and in referring to the Report he should confine 

 himself to horticultural matters. In the second paragraph of 

 the Report it is stated, "The Council have established a series 

 of evening meetings for the discussion of horticulture. They 

 are convinced that the comparatively small attendance at the 

 ordinary meetings arises from the inconvenience of the hour 

 rather than any indifference to them on the part of the Fellows, 

 and they therefore consider that evening meetings may be con- 

 sidered of value both by the Fellows and others engaged in the 

 pursuit of horticultural science." Now, here was a statement 

 that there was a small attendance at the ordinary meetings, but 

 it was the opinion of all horticulturists without exception that 

 the meetings were for the cultivation of the science of horti- 

 culture. If the Chief Pontiff in the chair and his suffragans 

 [laughter] thought the services of the Society were of such little 

 moment, it was hardly to be expected that the outer world would 

 pay them respect. It was said that all alterations were made 

 in a non-horticultural direction, and that the Council went in 

 for reductions. He went ou to say that the local Fellows — the 

 Kensingtonians — who lived in that neighbourhood did not ex- 

 press any special interest in horticultural matters. They had in 

 their Society the town element and the country element. The 

 town Fellows had the advantage of these gardens, and could 

 attend all the Shows during the summer, whereas the country 

 Fellows possessed the advantages which spruug from the dis- 

 tribution of new plants. He did not know how much more than 

 flOO was the salary of an additional doorkeeper at Elvaston 

 Place, but for his own part he should prefer a few pretty plants 

 where entering by the old Orchid house to the new entrance, 

 even though it be amongst the chalk and plaster effigies of 

 some monsters of the deep [laughter]. It did appear to him 

 that horticulture had fallen upon evil days [a laughj. The 

 vexed question of exhibitions, from which much of their bitter- 

 ness sprung, was happily removed by the total failure and col- 

 lapse of these exhibitions [laughter]. He could not see why 

 the difficulties and antagonistic inierests between the Com- 

 missioners and the local Fellows could not be arranged. The 

 local Fellows only wanted their colonnade, and their band, and 

 their promenade ; but these were no horticultural elements 

 whatever; but still, why should not people have these things 

 as long as they were willing to pay for them ? Why should not 

 some arrangement he come to between the Royal Commissioners 

 and local Fellows, in order that the latter might be provided 

 with the accommodation they required '? He felt perfectly 

 certain that the Commissioners would not be slow to give the 

 Fellows all the accommodation they required. He again said 

 he could see no reason why an amicable arrangement should 

 not be come to between the two bodies [hear, hear]. 



Mr. Walford said he had long taken a deep interest in the 

 affairs of the Society. He had watched the changes which had 

 taken place in the Council with the hope that they might go on 

 from what was regarded as bad to something better. He was 

 not sure they had been successful in that [hear, hear]. The 

 Chairman, who put everything so pleasantly that it went 

 against one's heart to say anything in an opposite direction, 

 said he saw nothiui^ in our present position at which they need 

 be too much alarmed. However, if his own expenditure rapidly 

 exceeded his income, and he found himself surrounded with 

 debt, he should regard the position as a serious one indeed. 

 He knew very well that the people who lived in the neighbour- 

 hood did not feel the same interest in horticulture that others 

 did. He should not trespass on Sir Alfred Slade, as he saw now 

 what he had perceived before, that while Fellows were address- 

 ing the chair, the members of the Council were holding a con- 

 versation [cries of hear, hear]. He should stop if he saw that 

 conversation renewed [cheers and lau^ihter]. The fact was 

 that the local Fellows had made the Gardens a nursery very 

 different from the sort of nursery it was originally intended to 

 be [hear, hear]. The whole thing had not been successful, and 

 the time had arrived when they ought to take some steps to 

 have matters remedied. "Would it not be prudent to go to the 

 Commissioners in some form, and treat with them, if, as had 

 been said, the existence of the Society depended upon the Com- 

 missioners ? "Why not place the whole case before them, and 

 say that a number of gentlemen both in London and the 

 country had joined the Society for the purpose of cultivating 

 horticulture, but that horticultural purposes were being wiped 

 away to make room for other purposes ? He saw with great 

 regret that the name of Mr. Smee, a practical horticulturist, 

 had been withdrawn. When he saw the black board that day 

 behind the Chairman he thought it was typical of the black 

 condition of the Society [oh! and hear]. 



The Chairman. — I can only say in respect to what has just 

 been said, that we have already approached the Commissioners 

 on very many occasions, and that we have had several inter- 

 views with them. Mr. "Walford appears to think that we have 

 never been before the Commissioners, but it might have been 

 gleaned from my speech that we have had many conversations 



and consultations. As to Mr. Smee, the rule has been to elimi- 

 nate three names of members of Council who have given the 

 least number of attendances. Mr. Smee was one of those; not 

 that his interest in horticulture has at all suffered [hear, hear]. 



Mr. G. F. Wilson observed that for some time past Fellows, 

 not local but horticultural ones, had been coming to him and 

 saying, " Keally there is so little being done for horticulture 

 that I shall retire." He had heard that over and over again, 

 and he had always said to those people, " A good time will 

 come; don't be in a hurry." He thought that everything which 

 was possible to be done to introduce a better state of things 

 ought to be done, and done at once [cheers]. The Chairman 

 had spoken of his fellow counsellors, and had spoken of the feel- 

 ings of Englishmen. Now, he (Mr. Wilson) thought a charge 

 might be brought against the Chairman and the Council, which 

 was peculiarly objectionable to Englishmen, and that was a 

 want of pluck [laughter]. He alluded by that remark to the 

 country shows. They had heard nothing about them in the 

 Report, although he had heard there was a rule for keeping up a 

 BulHcient guarantee fund. When they held a Show at Bury St. 

 Edmunds it was an untried experiixieut; but what had been an 

 untried experiment was now an ascertained success, and there- 

 fore he accused the Council of want of pluck in not entering 

 into country shows. 



Sir Henrv Trino wished to say what he was bound to say on 

 behalf of the Royal Commissioners. He wished to allude to 

 himself respecting some advice he had given to the Commis- 

 sioners lately, and he wished to say a few words upon the legal 

 aspect of the question, having for twenty- four years taken a very 

 deep interest in the Society. He might say he was no longer 

 a Commissioner. As to the legality of the Council, when the 

 revolution occurred, either for good or bad, the Commissioners 

 sought the ad rice of the law officers of the Crown, and the latter 

 said in their opinion the Council was illegal ; consequently the 

 Commissioners did not appoint the Expenses Committee, and 

 thus they were brought to a deadlock. 'Xhe Commissioners did 

 not think it their duty to interfere, but to let matters alone. The 

 Commissioners were perfectly willing that when the present or 

 the next Council obtained an opinion from the law officers of the 

 Crown in their favour to at once acknowledge them. The Com- 

 missioners never had the slightest hostile feeling towards the 

 noblemen and gentlemen on the Council. The Commissioners 

 never had the slightest feeling as to the revolution, but they 

 were advised by the law officers of the Crown that the acts of 

 the Coitncil were illegal. The next question referred to the un- 

 happy rink. He believed he was the most guilty of anybody, 

 for when he was asked whether in his opinion it was legal to 

 devote any portion of the Gardens to the purposes of the rink 

 he pronounced it with the greatest contidence to be illegal. He 

 told the Commissioners this — "It is illegal, and we cannot 

 allow it." That was the whole history of the aliair [loud cheers] . 

 He was perfectly certain there was no more hostile feeling on 

 the part of the Commissioners in refusing to sanction the rink 

 than in any other matter. The Chairman had spoken of " hard 

 words," but really the Commissioners had not spoken a hard 

 word at all. The refusal to sanction the rink was not the result 

 of a hostile spirit, but was simply a question of law. If ever 

 there was a clear case of ordinary common sense and legal com- 

 mon sense it was this. It was really quite impossible for a body 

 like the Commission, established for the promotion of science 

 and art, to allow a Society which was established for the pur- 

 pose of scientific horticulture to put up a skating rink. He now 

 came to the intention of the Commissioners generally with re- 

 spect to the Royal Horticultural Society. Whatever might 

 have been the intentions of the Council, or whatever had been 

 the speech of the Chairman, there appeared to have been some- 

 thing sore in their minds when the Report was written. He did 

 not blame them for it, but he was authorised to say on behalf 

 of the Commissioners that with regard to horticulture their in- 

 tentions had never been in the remotest degree hostile [cheers]. 

 The Commissioners considered themselves juasi partners in the 

 promotion of horticulture, and it was their entire wish to pro- 

 mote the objects of horticulture [cheers]. On that point, there- 

 fore, whatever might have been said of the Commissioners, he 

 was authorised to state that they never had any wish to do any- 

 thing but to promote the objects of the Society in every possible 

 way [cheers]. So far as regarded horticulture; and now as to 

 the appropriation of land. It had been whispered that the 

 Commissioners wanted to build upon the land. Now he was 

 authorised to say that proposition had never been brought before 

 them ; he meant the proposition to build upon the Horticultural 

 Gardens [cheers]. He was authorised to say such a proposition 

 was never submitted to them; that they never for one moment 

 thought of such a proposition ; and that they never had any 

 intention upon the subject [hear, hear]. It appeared to him. 

 that the arrangement or agreement of the Society with the 

 Commissioners was drawn in a worse and more loose manner 

 than any Act of Parliament he had ever seen [laughter]. He 

 could say, on behalf of the Commissioners, that they never 

 thought of determining the lease or of putting an end to the 



