March U, 1675. ] 



JOURNAL OF HORTICULTURE AND COTTAGE GARDENER. 



197 



rejection of the Report, and even if it were rejected it would 

 Hot amount to a vote of censure ; — but let them ask the Council 

 to submit the scheme to them, and let them see what was going 

 to be done. That would not reflect upon the Council at all, or 

 place them in such a position that they must resign their posts. 

 He hoped the Fellows would adopt some means of making the 

 Society in reality what it was in name [hear, hear]. If they 

 did not do so they should very soon have to get another name. 

 Let them do everything they could to relieve themselves from 

 the superabundance of debt with which they were surrounded. 

 Let the Report go bock to the Council — let there be an interview 

 obtained with the Commissioners as speedily as possible. If 

 that were done the matter might be brought to a successful 

 issue, and the Society placed on a sure and certain basis [hear, 

 hear J . 



The Chaikhan. — There is a motion before the meeting moved 

 by Mr. Peach and seconded by Mr. Quilter. (His lordship here 

 read the motion ) It is right the meeting should be accurately 

 in possession of what they are voting about, and therefore it 

 will possibly save time if I say, on the part of the Council, that 

 the Fellows are now about to vote upon a question which the 

 Council consider a vote of confidence [hear, and no]. At any 

 rate the Society will feel we adopt the most manly course in 

 stating at once the way in which we view any amendment to 

 the Report which we now have the honour to present to you. 



A Fellow pressed upon the Council the necessity of adjourn- 

 ing the question to see what arrangement could be come to with 

 the Royal Commissioners. 



Mr. LiGGiNs said he was surprised at the last two speeches they 

 had heard, because it was obvious to all men of business that if 

 such an amendment was passed it would cast a stigma upon the 

 Council which no man of honour could stand [cries of " no, no," 

 and interruption]. The rule of all societies, from the House of 

 Commons downwards, was that when such a resolution as the 

 present was passed it amounted to a vote of want of confidence. 

 They had no right to express opinions as to amity existing 

 between the Council and the Commissioners without supporting 

 that expression by their votes. He asked them to oppose that 

 obnoxious amendment which had been brought forward in a 

 manner which had astonished him. What after all was this 

 Report ? It was coupled with the accounts of the Royal Horti- 

 cultural Society for the past year. It was more a record of 

 what had been done than a programme of what was to come 

 [no, no]. It was no use to say " no," because the Report was 

 an account of what the Council had done. If these accounts 

 were insuihcient the Fellows must have expected them to be 

 so, because they knew the Council had to struggle against the 

 deficit left them by the gross mismanagement of the gentlemen 

 in office before them [" no, no," and much interruption]. Was 

 there any wisdom in the expenditure of i'oOO for a statue ? 



Mr. QuiLTEK. — What statue 1 



Mr. LiGGiNs. — Well, a statue, but I never knew the name of 

 it [laughter]. The statue was the work of the late Mr. Foley. 

 He contended that whilst they were in debt that was an expendi- 

 ture of i,'50O unnecessary in the interests of horticulture. There 

 was a legacy of debt equally unnecessary left upon the shoulders 

 of these gentlemen. He begged to say the gentleman was wrong 

 who said the late Council resigned. The fact was they were 

 turned oiit [hear, no, and some interruption]. The Fellows, 

 honestly and like Englishmen, turned them out, having lost 

 confidence in their management. What had the present Council 

 done ? They had done everything to reduce expenditure and 

 make the gardens pay. It was painful to them to have to reduce 

 the prizes and the shows, but it must be remembered that the 

 last Council had been spending vast sums of money they had 

 no right to spend. It was all very well to say, "Oh, reduce the 

 number of bands ;" but if they did not make the gardens attrac- 

 tive their local Kensingtonians would fall off, and the few 

 guineas they got back would melt away, and they would have no 

 money for prizes. Let them remember the gardens were not of 

 an altogether horticultural nature, but having got them they 

 ought to do the best they could to retain them, and not let their 

 landlords get them back [hear, hear]. Whether they did or 

 did not desire to possess the gardens, there would be no diffi- 

 culty in disposing of them at a profitable rate. But it was their 

 duty, to the interests of the horticultural world, to retain these 

 gardens because they encouraged horticulture. Although he 

 was a Kensingtonian, his connection with the Society arose 

 from his love of horticulture. If they passed such a resolution 

 as that now before the meeting they would commit a great ab- 

 surdity, because they ought to put the Council in the position 

 the Commissioners believed they would be in. Did they sup- 

 pose that if that meeting was adjourned for a month the Inter- 

 national CommisHioners would take any action during that 

 month? Certainly not. They would say, " Oh, you are in hot 

 water with your Fellows. You have passed no accounts, they 

 will have nothing to do with you, and until they are passed we 

 can do nothing." In conclusion, Mr. Liggins earnestly besought 

 the Fellows to support their Council. 



Mr. Pinches observed that the Report was simply a retrospec- 



tive account of what had been done by the Society, and he could 

 not see on what ground the meeting could refuse to receive it. 

 Thej had decided on expunging from the Report the statements 

 considered to be offensive to the Commissioners, and now that 

 they were not in the Report he could not see any ground for 

 postponing the reception of it [hear, hear]. He thought they 

 were treating the Council in a very shabby manner indeed 

 [hear, hear]. As a pretty close observer of the doings of the 

 Society he must candidly say he was utterly at a loss to know on 

 what reasonable grounds they wanted to find fault with what 

 the Council had done. If they displaced the Council they would 

 incur, justly or unjustly, the enmity of the Commissioners, and 

 by the fact of doing so they put the Council out of a position in 

 which they could communicate with the Commissioners. After 

 a careful investigation of the accounts of the Society in the 

 Report and those which went before it, he was bound to say 

 these gentlemen had really done good work [cheers], and had 

 succeeded in paying off a considerable accumulation of debt 

 [hear, hear]. One of their primary objects was the reduction of 

 their debt. Everybody knew they could not reduce their debt 

 and increase their expenditure at the same time. Surely the 

 best thing the Council could have done was to maintain the 

 chief feature of the Society. There had never been any shows 

 so good as those of last year, and for his part he should sooner 

 see three good shows than thirty indifferent ones [hear, hear]. 

 The Council had, he thought, exercised a sound discretion in 

 determining to reduce the number of the shows and increase 

 their briUiancy. He asked the meeting to pass the Report of 

 the Council. Could anything lie more insulting to a body of 

 men than to reject their Report after, at the request of the 

 Fellows, they had expunged from it certain phrases considered 

 to be objectionable ? It would be most ungentlemanly be- 

 havioar to do so, and he did not believe any body of gentlemen 

 would lend themselves to such a proceeding. Now, as to the 

 panaceas which had been suggested. One gentleman said they 

 had only to get up a ball or a fete in order to clear oft the debt 

 of the Society. Well, when he was invited to come to an even- 

 ing meeting there and found just twelve ladies and gentlemen 

 in the room, he asked them. Could anything be more dishearten- 

 ing than such a state of things ? What they had to do now was 

 to pass the Report, which was simply a record of the past history 

 of the Society for the year. He quite understood the remarks of 

 the Chairman as to the Council being legally constituted if the 

 Report was passed, and he hoped the meeting would not hesitate 

 to adopt the Report [applause]. 



Mr. Edgar Bowring was understood to say he should support 

 the Council's Report. With respect to the five hundred guineas 

 expended on a statue, as the person most concerned in the 

 matter was no longer alive, he would tell the exact circum- 

 stances. At the time this occurred the late lamented Prince 

 Consort was President of the Society and of the Royal Com- 

 mission. The Prince Consort thought much might be dona for 

 the progress of science and of the fine arts, particularly of 

 painting and sculpture, in connection with the Society, and it 

 occurred to him that sculpture and horticulture might be com- 

 bined in the gardens. He brought up a plan whereby out of the 

 profits of the Society a sum of five hundred guineas should be 

 annually set apart for the purpose of inviting competitions, so 

 that a sculpture gallery might be established in the gardens. That 

 plan was brought before the Expenses Committee of the Royal 

 Commission, of which he (Mr. Bowring) was a member. As the 

 Commissioners received half the profits of the gardens it was 

 quite clear their consent to the suggestion should be obtained. 

 Well, it was under that arrangement that the beautiful piece of 

 sculpture " Youth at the Stream " was ordered from Mr. Foley. 

 The Commissioners were willing to run the risk and give half 

 the sum towards the sculpture. The Society had the idea that 

 if this could be carried out it would be of great advantage, not 

 only to horticulture, but would do much to promote the cultiva- 

 tion of the fine arts in this country [hear, hear]. 



Mr. Walfoed regretted that he made the speech he had made 

 at the last meeting, not exactly as to what he had then said, 

 because that had grown upon him day by day, but because he 

 had discovered a very great dissatisfaction existing amongst the 

 members of the Society as to its future prospects. He had no 

 personal object to serve. He did not want to serve on Council 

 or Committees, or to take any part in the management, but 

 he did want to see the opportunity for doing something, and 

 doing it quickly, not lost. As far as the amended Report went 

 the objectionable clauses had been withdrawn. That was all 

 right ; but there were certain paragraphs in the Report which 

 required very careful consideration. The third last paragraph 

 said, " The attention of the Fellows is specially called to the 

 fact that unless the rent of £2400 is paid to Her Majesty's Com- 

 missioners next year, the lease of the South Kensington Gardens 

 may be forfeited, and to prevent this contingency an increased 

 revenue must be obtained." Then the Report went on to state 

 that it was proposed to call a special meeting to consider the 

 question of raising the revenue of the Society. That seemed to 

 be all very right and proper : but supposing it should happen 



