406 



J0T3BNAL OF HORTIOULTUEE AND COTTAGE GARDENER. 



t May 37, 1876. 



addition, were out of pocket money, which was their own bond 

 /[(/c property [hear, hear]. Under these circumatanceB he did 

 not think it jaetifiable to say the actions in the County Court 

 were being taken in reality by the gentlemen and only ostensibly 

 by the gardeners. He sincerely hoped, however, they would 

 succeed in their actions ["oh I" and hear]. The real reason 

 why the funds of the Society had fallen oS was by the neglect 

 of provincial shows ; but that, however, was not the fault of the 

 Council, but of the general public. The Council might have 

 held a show, and a good show, in the north this year. In con- 

 clusion, Mr. Lindsay said he was of opinion that the Chairman 

 ought to state the grounds upon which an adjournment of the 

 present Meeting was asked for. 



Dr. Kellock observed that as regarded the gardeners and the 

 loss of their prize money, Mr. Lindsay really knew nothing at 

 all about the matter [laughter]. As to holding a meeting in 

 the north, it was perfectly impossible to do so. There was 

 no prize money to be got up there, and it would have cost the 

 Society ^22000 in money prizes to go to Wigan. 



Mr. Lindsay. — Have you any authority for that ? 



Dr. Kellock. — Oh yes, I have ; you were on the Council at 

 the time [laughter]. 



Mr. Lindsay. — What is your authority ? 



Dr. Kellock. — It was Wigan, and it is unfair for any person 

 to make such intemperate remarks. Tou only retired a few 

 weeks ago from the Council, and if you had either good manners 

 or good taste you would not to-day have spoken as you have 

 [" oh, oh," and cheers] . 



Sir Alfred Slade said that no doubt anyone would have 

 thought that the late Secretary of the Council would or could 

 have spoken with some authority. With respect to that he (Sir 

 Alfred Slade) had exactly the same sources of information that 

 Mr. Lindsay had, and therefore, in the first place, he altogether 

 objected to the principle laid down by Mr. Lindsay that the 

 proposals of the Commissioners should either be disclosed to or 

 discussed by that meeting [cheers]. He had understood that it 

 was the expressed wish of the Annual General Meeting and of 

 the adjourned Meeting of Fellows of the Royal Horticultural 

 Society that all these negotiations between the Society and Her 

 Majesty's Commissioners should be entrusted to the Council of 

 the Society [cheers]. If Mr. Lindsay were on the Council now 

 he would be the very last man to make the speech he had just 

 delivered [hear, hear]. Mr. Lindsay said it was untrue the 

 debts of the Society were less than what they were when he 

 firet sat at that board, but in the report presented that fact was 

 stated, and that report was drafted by Mr. Lindsay himself 

 [cheers and laughter] ; so that when on the Council he was one 

 who assured the Fellows that he laboured constantly to reduce 

 the debts of the Society. He (Sir Alfred Slade) could assure the 

 Meeting that he had as much confidence in the present Council 

 — now that he sat amongst the Fellows — as he had when he sat 

 at the Council Board [cheers]. 



Sir Alexander Gordon said there was one observation he 

 wished to make, and it was this, that it would be most unfair 

 were they to declare their approval of any proposals or arrange- 

 ment in that Meeting without consulting the five thousand 

 Fellows of the Society. Verbal communications had been 

 stated to be sufficient for adjourning the Meeting, but he took 

 verbal communications to be most unsatisfactory and dangerous 

 to act upon [hear, hear]. He should like to know whether the 

 proposals made to Her Majesty's Commissioners were in writing, 

 and whether they were to be taken into consideration at a future 

 time ? 



Mr. GuEDALLA hoped the Council would withdraw the plea 

 of insolvency [hear, hear], and pay the claims put forward in 

 the County Court. It must be repugnant to every gentleman 

 present — especially when it \^aB considered their Society was a 

 "Royal" one — to have a plea of insolvency entered on their 

 behalf [hear, hear]. Why, he asked, should the Council file a 

 plea of insolvency or a declaration of insolvency, as the Chair- 

 man told them would be the case? Let the Council pay every 

 claim to the last farthing, and they would be supported by the 

 Fellows. 



The CuArRMAN. — Let me call you to order for one moment. I 

 did not say we were going to file a declaration of insolvency, 

 but I said that if the cases went on we should rather do so than 

 pay what we consider preferential claims. 



Mr. Gdedalla. — Well, yon should pay what is due to the 

 prizeholders [hear, hear]. Why should you be obliged to pay 

 by compulsion ? Pay away as far as you can, and when you 

 have paid all you have got fall back upon us. I am sure it must 

 be repugnant to every member of the Society to do such a thing 

 as that proposed by the Chairman. 



The Chairman. — I do hope the subject will not be pressed 

 further. We are ready with our schemes. There are two of 

 them in my hand, and I could read them to you and tell you 

 everything that has taken place between ourselves and Her 

 Majesty's Commissioners. We are perfectly ready to do all that, 

 but we say it is not for the benefit of the Society that we should 

 do BO. Addressing to the Meeting questions like that which Sir 



Alexander Gordon put will simply place the Society in the veiy 

 position we deprecate. 



Sir Alexander Gordon. — Well, I will only put this question. 

 Whether the fact of asking if the proposals made by the Council 

 of this Society to Her Majesty's Commissioners are in writing 

 can place this Society in an embarrassing position ? 



The CiLiiRMAN. — The whole correspondence with Her Majesty's 

 Commissioners is in writing, and the only reason we do not 

 bring that correspondence up is that we have not received an 

 answer in writing from Her Majesty's Commissioners. We 

 expect an answer from Her Majesty's Commissioners in ten days, 

 and then we shall be glad to lay the whole matter before the 

 Fellows. 



Sir Alexander Gordon. — And yet you may declare yourselTes 

 insolvent before the next ten days [hear, hear]. 



The Chairman. — We will as a matter of course defend the 

 actions. What I said was put by way of illustration [oh '] 

 What I did say was that it would be better to declare ourselves 

 Insolvent than to pay preferential claims [cries of " no."]. 



Mr. DoBREE (Treasurer) said if the Fellows really wanted to 

 support the Society they ought to pay-up the amount of the sub- 

 scriptions they owed. The amount was a considerable one — ■ — 



A Fellow. — How much is it ? 



Mr. DoBREE. — £1240 is due from Fellows on this year ["oh, 

 oh"]. Why do not these Fellows pay up their subscriptions? 

 If they did so, they would materially assist us in carrying on 

 the business of the Society [hear, hear]. We have done all we 

 can do, but we cannot get on without money. 



A Fellow. — How much would put the Society in a good 

 financial position ? 



Mr. DoBREE. — If we could find a sum of £5000 or .£6000 dropped 

 into our mouths we should be all right [laughter]. Supposing 

 you suspended payment to-day, you have at your liankers about 

 i'200O. You owe for prizes ±'1400, and if I were to pay these 

 rabid prizemen we should come to a dead stand. I will rather 

 cut my hand off than sign a cheque to pay these prizes [" oh, 

 oh"]. By paying them you give an undue preference to those 

 men who won prizes at their masters' expense, because those 

 very men who win the prizes win them at the cost of their 

 masters' fuel, hothouses, &c. [no, and hear]. The thing is 

 ridiculous. I have here one of the most ungentlemanly letters 

 I ever read from a man named Wilkins about his gardener. 



A Fellow. — Read it. 



Mr. DoBREE. — No, we will not read it [hear, hear]. Then to 

 go on as to our financial position. We owe sundry accounts up 

 to the Slst of December, and some up to the 25th of March, 

 amounting to i'1218 14s. Id. We owe our Accountant fifty-two 

 guineas, and we owe a Member of our Council, who put his 

 band in his pocket to pay for the die of the Lindley medal, 

 between fHO and i'70. "That brings up our liabilities to a sum of 

 i'2703. Then we have current accounts amounting to say .£200 

 or £.300, making you owe, supposing we stopped to-day, rather 

 more than £3000. Against that you have in your banker's 

 hands £2000, and that we intend to protect ; and if judgment is 

 given against us in these County Court cases, the best thing wa 

 can do is to file a declaration of insolvency, and bring matters 

 to a crisis [loud cries of " no," and a voice, " we will find 

 funds," followed by interruption]. What are we to do if these 

 men get judgments against us ? Are we to pay all or some of 

 them ? [cries of " pay, pay," and order]. WeU, you may take 

 my place as Treasurer of the Society, but I will not Sign n 

 cheque to pay these prizes [uproar]. 



A Fellow. — Somebody else must [cheers]. 



Mr. DoBREE. — Tou may do it, but I will not. As the Treasurer 

 of the Society I am bound to protect the Society, and hence I 

 will pay no preferential claims. If you insist on my doing it, 

 you will have to find another Treasurer ["oh, oh"]. 



A Fellow. — So we easily can [interruption]. 



Mr. DoBREE. — Tou owe about £3000, and against that you 

 have £2000 in hand. That will pay a very handsome dividend 

 [a laugh]. Tour Fellows owe £1200, and we have a claim 

 against Her Majesty's CommiaeionerB for rent, &c., of between 

 £900 and £1000. StUI, all that wo'n't enable you to get along 

 towards the end of the year, Tou will want a large sum to 

 enable you to get along to the end of the year. 



Dr. Denny and Mr. Godson rose to address the chair, but the' 

 latter gave way. 



Dr. Denny said their Treasurer had stated— whether rightly 

 or wrongly he would not say — that they should declare them- 

 selves insolvent if jHdgment went against them. Well, they 

 would be insolvent if judgment went against them previous to 

 next meeting. Now he (Dr. Denny) asked what was to become 

 of the Society's show after the statement made that day that 

 the prizes would not be paid ? [hear, hear]. Would they have 

 any show whatever on the 2nd of June ? Would it not be better 

 for them to close their doors? ["no," "yes," and confusion]. 

 Let them not turn swindlers and take 7s. 6d. for admission and 

 yet have no show. Let them keep up the Society as honourable 

 men, and eveu if the Society must fall, don't let them open 

 their doors and charge Is. Ijd. for admission and have no show 



