June 10, 1875. ] 



JOURNAL OP HORTICULTURE AND COTTAGE GARDENER. 



445 



proposals of the Society ehoald first be read, and said he begged 

 to move that they be read. 



Amid some coufasiou this was seconded. 



The Chairman said that if Mr. Godson's motion was carried 

 he should resigu his position iu the chair [loud cries of " no" 

 and some ioterruption ). He should certainly make the speech, 

 aud adopt the course which to him seemed tit [cheers]. 



Sir Alfred Slade. — Let me just ask a question [uproar]. 



Mr. GuEDALLA in the noise was understood to say that he had 

 been aosuatomed to public business for fifty years, and that in 

 his opinion the proposals ought to be read. 



The Chairman observed with some warmth that he should 

 not make the critical statement he had to make under the dicta- 

 tion of anyone ["oh!" and more interruption]. 



Mr. Shirley Hibberd. — There is no dictation whatever. 

 Why not let us have the proposals before the reply ? [cheers]. 



The Chairman. — Perhaps you will make my speech [uproar]. 



Sir Alfred Slade. — Although I agree it is desirable the pro- 

 posals should be submitted to the Meeting, and that if any 

 gentleman chose to read the reply to them first iu the course 

 of his speech, it would be so much worse for his speech. Still 

 it is unusual to interrupt a gentleman in making a speech, even 

 if he puts the cart before the horse [cheers aud laughter]. 



Several Fellows rose to address the Meeting, but yielded to 

 Sir Coutts Lindsay, who said : — We have done everything we 

 could to come to an arrangement with the Commissioners. 

 There are six schemes, and not one, aud Lord Bury thought we 

 should come to the sequence. If you thought right of it, it was 

 competent for you to see all the schemes, and really the Chair- 

 man is anxious you Bhould see all the schemes we have brought 

 forward [cheers]. 



Mr. W. A. Lindsay. — Let them be read [cheers and interrup- 

 tion] . 



Sir ConTTS Lindsay. — Let them be read in due course [much 

 confusion]. 



Mr. W. A. Lindsay. — May I venture to suggest that you will 

 read the substance of the letter instead of reading it verbatim ? 

 [cries of "no "J. 



The Chairman. — In all my experience of public meetings it 

 has never been my fate to find a meeting at which the person 

 who was elected to preside over its proceedings was not allowed 

 to make his statement as he wished to make it [cheers]. I beg 

 respectfully to say I shall make that statement in my own way, 

 and as I think best, or I shall leave the chair. [The Chairman 

 took up his hat as if to carry his threat into effect, and this was 

 followed by loud cries of " no."] 



A Fellow. — Let the Secretary read all the letters. 



Mr. GLIED.VLLA. — The Chairman can embody them in his 

 speech [hear, hear]. 



The Chairman. — That is the very thing I proposed to do 

 [cheers]. If you do not let me make my speech in my own 

 way how am I to make it at all? I assure the Meeting they 

 would be in possession of the whole case if I were allowed to 

 go ou [cheers]. 



Mr. Haoghton. — All we objected to was the reading of the 

 reply before the proposals [hear, hear]. The correspondence 

 ought to be placed before the Meeting in proper order [applause] . 



The Chairman. — If the Meeting ctiooaes to say that I will do 

 the best I can [cheers]. I wish to state Her Majesty's Com- 

 missioners have refused the proposals made them. I intended 

 to place before you the way in which they have done so, but I 

 honestly confess this interruption has fairly scattered the course 

 of my thoughts ; and although I should like to present to you as 

 well as I can, aud as briefly as I can, the position of the affairs 

 of the Society, rather than observe upon an attempt made by 

 ex-members of the Council, who, having quarrelled with the 

 Council, could not remain in it, to 



Sir Alexander Gordon. — Had not this be better avoided 1 

 [cheers]. 



The Chairman. — Well, I deprecate the course taken without 

 hearing any of the facts discussed on the one side or the other, 

 and I thiuk it very unfortunate. Honestly, ladies aud gentle- 

 men, I confess my ideas are so scattered I very much doubt 

 whether I can make the satisfactory statement I could have 

 otherwise made to you. I will for the moment content myself 

 with a brief review of the position of the Society at the present 

 moment, and then in a few words give a parting couusel to the 

 Society. I say a " parting couusel," for if I had been allowed 

 to read that letter it would have been observed that the way in 

 which our negotiations have closed with Her Majesty's Commis- 

 sioners led conclusively in my mind and in the mii.ds of several 

 of my colleagues to the opinion that we could do no further good 

 for the Society in resuming negotiations with Her Majesty's 

 Commissioners. It is quite possible that others who may 

 succeed and replace us may be more fortunate iu establishing 

 good relations between Her Majesty's Commisbiouers aud the 

 Royal Horticultural Society. But, for myself and colleagues, 

 I can only say, with all respect for the Society, I shall decline 

 to resume or continue these negotiations. Therefore I and some 

 of my colleagues propose to resign into your bauds the trast 



you were good enough to give us some time ago, and we ask you 

 to select others who may have better fortune iu dealing with Her 

 Majesty's Commissioners than we have had. I should like to go 

 back for a few moments to the origin of the Society. After the 

 Exhibition of 18jl the Commissioners of that Exhibition, with 

 the great aud illustrious Prince Consort at their head, found 

 themselves in possession of a very large sum of what was in 

 fact public money, aud it occurred to His Royal Highness the 

 Prince Consort that the surplus of the funds arising from the 

 Exhibition could not be better applied than iu promoting science 

 and art in every way attainable. Hence the gardens scheme 

 was inaugurated. This South Keusiugtou estate was bought 

 and vested in trustees ou behalf of Her Majesty's Commissioners 

 of the Exhibition of 1851 for the promotion of science and art 

 for ever. The place in which we now sit, and the gardens we 

 now have under lease, was at that time wild waste ground. It 

 is now surrounded by houses of great pecuuiary value, and 

 moreover it is of great value as one of the lungs of the metro- 

 polis [hear, hear]. There are two things essential to the con- 

 sideration of this part of the question, especially to the whole of 

 the west end of Loudon — that this shall not be enclosed, and shall 

 be preserved as an open space for ever ; aud another is that the 

 Royal Horticultural Society has, by means which I will explain 

 to you, or rather sketcb to you, become possessed of a very large 

 interest in this plot of land [hear, hear]. His Royal Highness 

 the Prince Consort desired that this wild laud should be beauti- 

 fied and adorned according to a plan which His Royal Highness 

 himself designed, and he set about carrying out his design for 

 the furtherance of science and art. He turned to a Society then 

 pursuing the even tenor of its way at Chiswick, doing great 

 service to horticulture, but not as I believe— for it was not in 

 my time — iu the enjoyment of a large revenue. His Royal 

 Highness asked the Society to accept a charter and become 

 tenants of this part of the grounds under certain conditions, and 

 these conditions were that the Royal Botanical Society and the 

 Royal Horticultural Society should expend at the outset £50,000 

 on the decoration of the grounds of which they became possessed. 

 Money must be obtaiued for that purpose somehow. The Gardens 

 were already mortgaged to Chelsea Hospital, and therefore could 

 not be made available for the rt quirements of the Society. That 

 statement rests upon the authority of my predecessor in this 

 chair — the Duke of Buccleuch. (The Chairman read an extract 

 from the speech of the Duke of Buccleuch at a Meeting held the 

 29th March, 1873). Well, continued the Chairman, I was not 

 aware the grounds were mortgaged, but I may take the fact as 

 substantially correct. 



A Fellow. — There is no doubt about it. 



The Chairman.— Well, the gardens being thus heavily mort- 

 gaged, what security could be given to anybody who would step 

 forward and find the money for the beautification of these gar- 

 dens ? I hold one of the original debentures issued under the 

 control of Her Majesty's Commissioners. Anyone who is fortu- 

 nate enough to possess such a document will see that he has not 

 obtained any security on the gardens, but upon the receipts 

 [hear, hear]. Now, we must cousider the attitude of mind the 

 Commissioners and His late Royal Highness were in. The Ex- 

 hibition had succeeded beyond anyone's expectation. It was 

 expected that a new Eldorado — a new Fortunatus's cap had 

 fallen upon the Commissioners. It was thought we should have 

 made so much money that, when the i;2100 rent was paid, and 

 the debenture interest was paid, there would be a large surplus 

 to be divided. This was the enormous estimate which then 

 existed in the minds of the late Prince Consort aud of his 

 advisers when the debentures were issued. The debenture- 

 holders no doubt shared iu the sanguine expectation of His late 

 Royal Highness, and believed the garden receipts would be 

 ample to pay the interest, and in part the capital. International 

 exhibitions, however, were held in Paris, New York, and St. 

 Petersburgh, and the Eldorado was found to be a limited one 

 — one having small boundaries ; international exhibitions be- 

 came adrug in the market, and then we had from the Exhibition 

 of 1851 the bathos of the annual exhibitions held in the railway 

 sheds at the head of South Kensington [hear, and laughter]. 

 Great results were expected from these exhibitions, but people 

 were deceived, and the result was that it was found the deben- 

 tures rested upon no solid foundation. But I believe the deben- 

 ture-holders will receive their money. But why? Because of 

 the great names upon the security of which those funds were 

 supplied ; because no part of these gardens has been devoted to 

 the uses of the Royal Horticultural Society itself, the whole 

 property being at this moment vested in lihe landlords; and 

 because the whole profits have been acquired and used by the 

 Royal Commissioners [cheers]. It is for this reason I say Her 

 Majesty's Commissioners cannot, and public opinion would not 

 allow them tolet these debentures remain unredeemed [cheers]. 

 That is our security for the payment of these debentures. I 

 am obliged unreservedly to express my views about these de- 

 bentures, and tell you frankly we are not responsible for these 

 debentures or the way in which they were raised, and which are 

 such a heavy charge upon us. .i;50,000 of debenture bonds with 



