u 



JOURNAL OF HORTICULTUEE AND COTTAGE GAEDENEB. 



[ July 15, 1875. 



A Fellow. — I should like to ask if there ia any resolution 

 before the Meeting. 



The Chairman. — There are before the Meeting the resignations 

 of myself and my three colleagues [hear, hear]. 



A Fellow. — I don't really see what ia before the Meeting 

 [interruption. Several Fellows attempting to address the 

 Chair]. 



Mr. GuEDALLA. — The greatest calamity which can befall the So- 

 ciety is the resignation of you, my lord, and that of your colleagues 

 [cries of "no" and uproar]. You can exercise great influence 

 in dealing with Her Majesty's Commiasioners, and your position 

 must have an influence on the way in which the communica- 

 tions of the Council would be received [much interruption]. I 

 directly tell you that if you do not keep these gentlemen in 

 office yonr Society will be extinctin a very few years [loud cries 

 of *'oh'' and considerable confusion]. I ask you, Are you aware 

 of the letter of the 25th of May ? Are yon aware of the letter 

 from Sir Henry Cole to Lord Granville, with respect to the 

 grounds being devoted to building purpoaea in order to get 

 something from the Government ? ["oh, oh"]. Are you aware 

 that waa done to bolater-up the failure or the fallen fortunes of 

 the International Exhibitions? [cries of "no," uproar, and 

 interruption]. I beg leave to ask you, my lord, and your 

 honourable colleaguea, whether no means can be adopted to 

 have a, vote taken ? because if there was you would have a large 

 majority [loud uproar and hissing, which lasted a couple of 

 minutes]. 



A Fellow. — We come here, not to hear speeches, but to 

 receive the resignations of Lord Bury and three other members 

 of the Council [renewed uproar]. 



Mn GuEDALLA.— Then I, sir, or my lord [a laugh], as a very 

 old Fellow of the Society, have come here to ask you to recon- 

 sider your determination to resign. I not only ask you to do 

 that, but I also ask your honourable colleagues to do the same 

 [interruption]. You have all performed your duties, and con- 

 ducted the affairs of the Society with great abiUty [loud and 

 prolonged hiasiug] . I appeal to you, my lord, as a man who has 

 had much practical experience in public life to reconsider your 



determination as to your reaignation, and to • [The rest of 



the sentence was lost in the noise resulting from an altercation 

 in the body of the hall, which ia explained as followa]. It ap- 

 pears that Mr. Liggins and Mr. Peter Barr of Covent Garden 

 were sitting in close proximity, and during the course 'of Mr. 

 Guedalla's observations a warm personal altercation between 

 them took place, which, aa far as could be heard, assumed the 

 following shape : — 



Mr. Babb. — You are a fool, sir, and know nothing about the 

 Society. 



Mr. LiGoiNs (coming forward towards the platform). — Thia 

 man calls me a fool! Now, my lord, I am not a fool [great 

 laughter]. I appeal to you, my lord, to protect me against this 

 man's violence. [Looking back], you impudent fellow to call 

 me a fool ! [interruption and uproar, during which Mr. Pinches 

 got between and separated the disputants]. 



The Chairman. — There is really no question before the Meet- 

 ing but the one — to consider the conduct of Lord Bury, Sir 

 Coutta Lindsay, Mr. Bonamy Dobree, and Mr. Burnley Hume 

 with respect to the non-completion of their resignations. These 

 resignations are here, but they are not completed. 



Lord Alfred Churchill. — When will they be '? 



The Chairman. — Those who called thia Meeting have to say. 

 I call upon Lord Alfred Churchill who interrupts me to justify 

 this circular which has been issued. If he does so, and any 

 gentleman has anything to add, I will reply. I place these re- 

 signations in the hands of the Assistant Secretary, but they are 

 not yet completed. 



Lord Alfred Churchill. — I quite admit that I signed the re- 

 quisition referred to by the noble lord. The whole difficulty in 

 which the Society ia placed is one of pounds, shillings, and 

 pence [hear, hear]. At present it ia in debt some £5000 or 

 £0000. I occupied a seat for a abort period at that Council 

 board, and I came there with the wish to help in making terms 

 with Her Majesty's Commissioners. Afterwards there arose 

 great annoyance in the minds of the South Kensington party, 

 and they declined to paaa the Eeport of the Society after terms 

 which we considered beneficial had been made. We assumed 

 that that was a vote of want of confidence, and we retired e?i 

 masse. You then came into the Society, and you were not in 

 it very long until you were made the catspawof the party, and 

 from that hour to thia the Society has been gradually brought 

 into difficulties, and you have failed to do anything with Her 

 Majesty Commissioners. I have also been told that when a 

 certain letter from the Commissioners was read in this room 

 your lordship's conduct was so violent that you had to retire 

 [oh, oh]. I hope it is not true. I signed the requisition be- 

 cause I thought it waa one which I ahould sign [hear, hear]. 



Mr. H. J. Veitch. — On the 4th of June you said you would 

 retire, my lord. I thought it would be for the benefit of the 

 Royal Horticultural Society that your lordship and the other 

 members of Council referred to should retire. You say your 



policy has failed and that you could not get the Society along. 

 Well, it has been submitted that the Fellows were not willing 

 to treat with the Commissioners; but, in any case, there can be 

 no doubt we are losing a very great number of Fellows, and that 

 we have alienated from the Society a very great number of ex- 

 hibitors [hear, hear]. The Eoyal Horticultural Society has 

 lost a very great deal through not having provincial shows. 

 Something like i'1800 or i.'2000 has been lost through not having 

 provincial shows. Now, with respect to the four gentlemen 

 whose resignations have been handed in, one of them said he 

 should sooner lose his right hand before he would sign a check 

 to pay the prize money to exhibitors. It was the Treasurer who 

 said that, and while on this subject I may sav they never 

 had a better supporter of the Society than Mr. Wilkins [hear, 

 hear], and, I do not think he is one who ought to have been 

 spoken of aa he has been [hear, hear]. I have heard, too, that 

 the allowance made to Mr. Berkeley, who had worked hard in 

 the interest of the Society, for travelling and other incidental 

 expenses was withdrawn [no, no]. Well, I am glad it was not, 

 for the services of Mr. Berkeley are most valuable. I con- 

 gratulate Mr. Bonamy Dobree that his right hand is saved and 

 the cheques for the prize money signed, and I have no doubt he 

 has found it much easier to eat his own words than cut his 

 right hand off. I am sorry so much should have been said at 

 a previous meeting about the arrangements made between gen- 

 tlemen and their gardeners in reference to exhibitions. I, as a 

 member of the firm of Messrs. J. Veitch & Sons, have supplied 

 a very large number of gentlemen with gardeners, and in no 

 instance have I known a gardener having leaa money becauae of 

 receiving prize money ; but I do know cases in which the more 

 prize money a gardener gets the more salary he receives from 

 his master. I do think thia ia a great Society which in the 

 future ought to drop everything save the study and practice of 

 horticulture. Let them all — horticulturists and South Kensing- 

 toniana — pnll together to retrieve the fortunes of the Society 

 [cheers]. 



Capt. Mackenzie. — I think no one ought to be elected Presi- 

 dent of the Society who has not a perfect knowledge of horti- 

 culture [hear, hear]. I hope that will be borne in mind. With 

 regard to the Royal Commissioners, I am sure they will not put 

 themselves in any way in opposition to the Royal Horticultural 

 Society. I think the gentlemen who signed the requisition 

 ought to get some better man to do the business of the Society 

 [bear, hear]. 



Mr. Shirley Hibberd. — I rise, my lord, to move . [Here 



there was a good deal of interruption, and Mr. Hibberd sat 

 down without proceeding with his motion.] 



Mr. H. G. QuiLTER. — You have placed your resignations on 

 the table. You have stated your wish to resign. You have 

 stated the reasons why you wish to do so, but you really have 

 not resigned because you have not completed your resignations. 

 You said as men of honour you would resign, but you deceived 

 us upon that matter. 



The Chairman. — Not at all, we did not. 



Mr. Quilter. — You stated that as men of honour you felt it 

 your duty to resign, but, as men of honour, you have not done 

 so [hear, hear]. I have watched the progress of this concern, 

 and I agree with Lord Alfred Churchill that you have been 

 made the catspaw of a certain party. You neglected the financial 

 means by throwing overboard the Society's provincial shows. I 

 feel it is high time we should do something to plaoe the Society 

 on a sound footing [hear, hear]. 



The Chairman, — I would ask the Meeting if the accusation is 

 now completed ? If it is, I shall be ready to answer it. 



Mr. Shirley Hibberd.— I rise to move " That Viscount Bury, 

 Sir Coutts Lindsay, Mr. Bonamy Dobree, and Mr. Burnley Hnme 

 be requested to complete their resignations" [cheers]. It is not 

 a pleasant thing to have to move such a resolution. We have 

 already many intelligent men on the Council, but I feel bound to 

 remind you that the gentlemen named in my resolution from the 

 moment of their accession to office have been loyally supported 

 ["no," and hear]. I do not think it can be truly alleged that 

 anything like party feeling baa entered into the action of the 

 Fellows [hear, hear] in getting up this requisition ; but we took 

 your worda aa the words of gentlemen when you said you would 

 resign [cries of "hear" and "time"]. The gentlemen who 

 have tendered their resignations have no sympathy with horti- 

 culture ["time" and "no"]. I take it they have none of it. 

 We were told about the regulations which it is alleged exist be- 

 tween gardenera and their employers. 



Mr. Liggins said this was not the question they had before 

 them [hear, hear]. 



Mr. A. F. Godson. — I will ask whether you, my lord, and 

 those who have given in their resignations are now members of 

 Council or not ? 



Mr. Hibberd. — I beg to move the resolution I have read. 



Mr. Braqge (Birmingham). — I will second Mr. Shirley Hib- 

 berd's motion. I believe there is a great future for the Society. 



A Fellow. — I don't see it [laughter]. 



Mr. Braqge. — I have no animus in the matter — all I have at 



