152 



JOURNAL OF HORTICULTURE AND COTTAGE GARDENER. 



[ Angnst 19, 1875. 



ment. Our representatives do not tell ns how the income of the 

 Society is to be increased. They do not tell us whether the 

 country Fellows will or will not have ten times as much to pay 

 as they have now to pay. I do not charge the Council with 

 anything of that sort, but I put the matter in this way to show 

 you that we ought to know what is intended to be done in the 

 way of raising the income of the Society. Let us have a 

 schedule which will give us that information. I have no doubt 

 the Council and the Commissioners in what they are doing are 

 acting for what they consider the best, but at the same time 

 it is well that we, the Fellows, shonld see and know what is 

 going to be done [hear, hear J. And for this reason, whatever 

 we do now will hind the whole Society [hear, hear]. Now, I 

 ask you to Iruik at that clause in the agreements which says the 

 Society shall not accept anymore life compositions. Well, now, 

 as far as that goes our charter might as well be torn up. No 

 more life Fellows indeed, without the consent of the Com- 

 missioners ! That is subjugation with a vengeance. Look again 

 at clause 8, which reads thus: "Whilst the said clauses 6 and 

 7 remain in force the Society shall, on the authorised bank 

 holidays, or on such other days not exceeding five in number in 

 any one year as may he agreed upon by the Society and the 

 Commissioners, admit the public to the South Kensington Gar- 

 dens free, or at such charge as may be fixed by the Commis- 

 sioners." Here, then, yon are tied by the feet, and I can tell 

 you, you will be tied by Ihe neck presently [hear, hear]. The 

 idea of asking us to give up our rights in this way is to me 

 simply and perfectly ridiculous. It is not to be supposed that 

 a body of men with ordinary intelligence will go blundering 

 into business in this kind of way [hear, hear]. But, after all, 

 how is it possible we can decide upon these propositions when 

 we have not had them in our hands half an hour? Now just 

 look at clause 5 of the " Proposed Supplemental Modification." 

 It says, " The Society will permit the Commissioners to make, 

 maintain, and control, subject to a right of way on the part of 

 the Society, the road shown on plan (b), etc., and will also permit 

 the Commissioners to remove the office marked (c) on the same 

 plan of the Society's Superintendent of Shows, and to occupy 

 and use to the absolute exclusion of the Society the land shown 

 on the said plan, &c." Now, I object to that clause, as it shuts- 

 np every mode of access for plants to our exhibitions [hear, 

 hear]. 



Mr. Hacghton. — The clause is subject to a right of way. 



Mr. Shibi.ey Hibbekd. — Well, perhaps so; but if you carry a 

 road next to Mr. Dick's house it will be impossible for you to get 

 plants into your exhibitions. Well, then, look at clause 10, which 

 reads thus- — *' The Society will not raise any question as to the 

 right of the Commissioners or their lessees to occupy and use any 

 buildings or structures now occupied or used by them or their 

 lessees which are partly or wholly built or erected on or over the 

 Society's land." Well, do you understand what that comes to? I 

 believe it is as great a mystery as ever came before any Society 

 that we shonld give up all our rights, and that Her Majesty's Com- 

 missioners should go exactly where they please. Let them at once 

 ask us to give up our garments and go through the world naked 

 [cheers and laughter]. They will ask for onr plants next ; they 

 will ask probably for everything exhibited on our premises ; 

 and I am really and sincerely surprised that a body of men, 

 respectable and responsible no doubt, and powerful as they 

 themselves feel, as the Commissioners are, should make such 

 mcnstrous proposals to the Royal Horticultural Society, and 

 expect that Society would accept or receive them [cheers]. It 

 is with the utmost astonishment I see these proposals made. 

 After all, I suppose two or three months must be expended in 

 considering this matter [no, no]. I mean considering it pro- 

 perly [hear, hear]. Between poverty and disgrace there is a 

 wide gulf. Well, let us bear poverty, for then we can still main- 

 tain our position — a position which is not as bad as it is repre- 

 sented, for after all a debt of a few thousand pounds is of very 

 little consequence ; but let us not, at all events, put up with 

 disgrace [cheers]. One very great difficulty in our way un- 

 doubtedly is that Her Majesty's Commissioners are so exalted 

 by the consciousness of their own strength and of our weakness, 

 they imagine they can impose any terms, however humiliating, 

 upon us [cheers]. I conclude by moving, "That this Meeting 

 be adjourned for two months from the present time." 



Mr. LiOGiNS. — I beg to second the motion just made by my 

 friend Mr. Shirley Hibberd; and in doing so I must say I am 

 astonished that a Council not elected by ourselves, but rather 

 nearly all of them appointed by each other, should come to us 

 with such ridiculous propositions as those submitted to-day 

 without having the courtesy of letting us know in proper time 

 what they were [hear, hear]. They may be very good, but we 

 have really no opportunity of knowing whether they are or not. 

 I should he very sorry to give any vote to- day, because my Lord 

 Aberdare says he hopes there will not be any opposition. That 

 nobleman does not know the case himself. It he is the President 

 of our Society, who appointed him ? All I know of him is that 

 he is a very able ex-minister of the Crown, and that he has, as 

 we now discover, been pitchforked into this office of President 



of the Royal Horticultural Society ; that he has been appointed 

 by a Council, by gentlemen who have done no'hing but put 

 forth this ridiculous scheme [cheers and laughter]. We would 

 be stultifying ourselves and thousands of Fellows of the Society 

 if we agreed to the proposals laid before us until we had proper 

 time to consider and decide upon them [hear, hear]. Let this 

 Meeting be adjourned until a larger number of Fellows come 

 into it, and then it may be that " in a multitude of counsellors 

 there is wisdom." Is there any imperative necestily for this 

 good work being done so rapidly? Matters of this sort are 

 generally arranged after mature consideration. We really have 

 not the honour of knowing Lord Aberdare. He is a perfect 

 stranger to us [hear, hear], and yet we are told from the chair 

 that he is our Pretident [a laugh], and that he writes a letter 

 stating Lord Coleridge and his country friends are about to visit 

 him and he can't come to you [laughter] ; and that applies to 

 the five hundred Fellows who usually fill this room, not to the 

 miserable numVier now present. Well, what is good for them 

 is good for the President : they are not here, he is not here, and 

 so we must adjourn [hear, and a laugh]. If I understand the 

 matter rightly we are very much indebted for these arrange- 

 ments between the Royal Horticultural Society and the Royal 

 Commissioners to His Royal Highness the Prince of Wales, 

 because I see in the Times — no mean authority — that the Prince 

 of Wales presided at Marlborough House over a joint meeting 

 of the Commissioners and of the Council of the Society. 



'The Chairman. — The Meeting was one of the Commissioners 

 solely. 



Mr. LioGiNs. — Well, however it may have been, I find that 

 Major-General Scott has got the whole credit for whatever has 

 been done [loud cries of " oh "], but it should be remembered 

 that the very same Major-General Scott and Sir Henry Cole 

 were always opposed to the interests of the Society, and 

 turned out a good Council. 



The Chairman. — The question, sir. 



Mr. LiGGiNs. — It is the question. It is the merest justice to 

 state that friendly feelings to this Society were expressed by 

 General Scott ; but at the same time I am sure we are all glad 

 that we have nothing to do with him or with Sir Henry Cole. 

 It was the policy of these gentlemen which brought the Society 

 to its present position [cheers]. Now look at the Council sitting 

 at that board. They are all elected by each other— they are not 

 elected by the Society at large. We really did not know who 

 was the President of the Society. I heard a whisper that Lord 

 Aberdare was to be the President, and it was very likely he 

 was as good a man as could he got in England [cheers]. But 

 nine out of ten gentlemen here were not aware that Lord Aber- 

 dare was our President. Is it, under these circumstances, just 

 that we should pledge ourselves to any arrangements so loosely 

 placed before us, and especially when those arrangements were 

 extremely beneficial to Her Majesty's Commissioners ? I do not 

 think we have anything to do with the Commissioners hut pay 

 them what is justly due to them [hear, hear]. I believe that 

 all legal complications respecting legal documents will be a curse 

 to the Society. At all events, I am quite sure that what takes 

 place to day will not give confidence to the public at large, or 

 induce those to subscribe who might be inclined to help us out 

 of our difficulties. But will they do so when they find such 

 complicated terms have been placed before us, and that we have 

 not got time to consider them? I do not blame these gentle- 

 men who have prepared these plans, because I am sure they 

 have worked very hard to get the business into ship-shape for 

 to-day [hear, hear]. But that is not a reason why we shonld be 

 satisfied. We have not had a reasonable time to consider 

 whether we should adopt these agreements or not, and as men 

 of intelligence and men of business our only alternative is to 

 adjourn the Meeting to a future day [hear, hear]. I beg to 

 second the resolution. 



Mr. GuEDALLA. — Although I agree with very much of what 

 has been said by the two last speakers, yet I do not fall in with 

 all their remarks, for I looked upon the appointment of the 

 Council as a fait accompli [hear, hear] , and for my part I shall 

 give the Council every support. Still, at our last meeting a new 

 member of the Council held out to us that he had a plan cut and 

 dry for the rescue of the Society from its difficulties, and that 

 the Council would come down to-day and submit the plan to us. 

 I may remark you have not stated the rights you have acquired 

 by the agreements. We are all aware you cannot obtain a much 

 larger income than you have without resorting to artificial 

 schemes snch as that of the skating rink. I think you have 

 rashly entered into some arrangements or agreements by which 

 you intend to raise your income to i'10,000 a-year. For my own 

 part I do not see how that is to be accomplished. I must say I 

 do not hold with the remarks made against General Scott, be- 

 cause I am sure he deserves our thanks [hear]. I did not 

 believe in him having a seat at the Council because I felt we 

 were in a state of dependance while he was there. It is all very 

 well to talk ah; ut getting A7000, but I am sure unless you have 

 some tangible security it will be a difficult matter to get it. 

 Admiral Hornby,— I wish to say I did not state at the lost 



