Angast 19, 1875. ] 



JOURNAL OF HORTICULTURE AND COTTAGE GARDENER. 



153 



meeting that I should be prepared today with a ont-and-dry plan 

 to show how oar income might be raised to i'lOjOOO. Still, I be- 

 lieve it can be raised to that amount. 



Mr. Gvedjlll.k. — Will you be good enough to say if you have 

 any hope of raising the i'7000 ? 



Admiral Hobnbv. — I can tell you this, that a gentleman pre- 

 sent has offered to lend us .£5000 [applause]. 



Mr. GuED.iLL.i. — I am sure we are all very glad to hear that, 

 for 1 do not like underhand dealings. I like plans and arrange- 

 ments which everyone can comprehend. 



The Chairm.^n.— Be good enough to keep to the agreements. 



Mr. GuEDALLA was understood to say he should support them. 



Mr. BoHS remarked that he was on the Committee when the 

 j£50,000 was raised. He opposed the raising of it, but Dr. 

 Lindley, Sir H. Cole, and others carried the day, so that Jt'50,000 

 had been the source of all their misfortunes [hear, hear]. 

 When they had Chiswick gardens they did not owe i^lO.OOO. 

 He had offered to keep the gardens for i'lOO a month and make 

 them successful. But the Society had encountered every op- 

 position at the hands of the Commissioners [hear, hear], and at 

 last they had jEoO.OOO tacked on to them. As to raising money 

 on the security of the Society, as it at present stood he very 

 much doubted it could be done. He would lend the Society 

 iElOjOOO to-morrow if they gave him security, but he did not 

 like the security they offered at present. Having commented 

 on the way in which the forty-guinea subscribers, of whom he 

 was one, had been treated, Mr. Bohn said the Society had got 

 into that position that they were little else than the vassals of 

 the Exhibition Commissioners, and, for himself, he should not 

 vote one way or the other. He was sorry that by a little mutual 

 giving way much more had not been done for the interests of 

 the Society [hear, hear]. 



The Chaibman. — I can assure you we shall take the case of 

 the forty-guinea sabscribers into consideration in laying our 

 scheme before you. 



Mr. Pinches. — There are two propositions before us — the first 

 ia that of adjournment because of the insufficient number of 

 FeUows attending the Meeting, and the second is that the Meet- 

 ing should be adjourned because the agreements have not been 

 a sufficient length of time in our hands. I think on the first 

 ground it would be idle to support the adjournment of the Meet- 

 ing. I am aware London is thinning rapidly, and no part of it 

 more than that in which we are (South Kensington), and I am 

 afraid if we adjourn the Meeting for two months, instead of 

 having fifty Fellows we should not have five [hear, hear]. 

 Upon that ground I shall not vote for adjournment. On the 

 other hand I think gentlemen have much underrated the oppor- 

 tunities they have had of looking into these agreements. I 

 really think with forty-eight hours before us it was quite possible 

 to master these documents [hear, hear] , and to come sufficiently 

 near to the gist of the whole case [hear, hear]. In considering 

 this question, I think we very often lose sight of the peculiar 

 position in which the Commissioners stand. However much 

 they may feel disposed to help the Society out of its difficulties, 

 they are after all dealing with a trust fund [hear, hear]. 

 Taking all these circumstances into account, and being very 

 much better acquainted, bygoingthrough very voluminous docu- 

 ments, with the relative positions of the two bodies than most 

 of the Fellows, I am very much inclined to think, however 

 much you may wriggle and distort yourself, and feel unutterable 

 anguish at your position [laughter], you can't wriggle yourself 

 out of it [hear, and renewed laughter]. We have got into a 

 mess, how can we get out of it? [hear, hear]. Fifteen or six- 

 teen years ago you made a most unfortunate bargain, which in 

 commercial circles was without a precedent. A sum of £50,000 

 was placed upon a lease of twenty-one years which may be 

 forfeited at any moment, and I understand the Commissioners 

 repudiate any responsibility in regard to it. 



Mr. Hauohton. — They are bound to take the responsibility of 

 half of it if thev do not renew our lease — responsibility, say, to 

 the amount of i'20,000. 



Mr. Pi.NCHEs. — Well, we said we should pay the rental, but 

 we have not paid more than twice ; and if we do not pay it next 

 year our lease is forfeited. How can we pay it ? We can't pay 

 our prizes, and how can we pay £2400 rent ? That being our 

 position, what is the use in talking of trifles? [hear, hear]. I 

 say, cast the Commissioners overboard if you can and float 

 the Society by yourselves ; but, looking into the relations be- 

 tween yourselves and the Commissioners I say such a thing is 

 impossible, and that, whether you like it or not, you are bound 

 in a sort of partnership. How are we to raise the £7000 ? It is 

 certainly very pleasing to hear that £5000 is to be lent us by a 

 gentleman 



Mr. Bohn. — On interest. 



Mr. Pinches. — And on some security. 



Admiral Hoknbt. — I shall explain. 



Mr. Pinches. — In any case our rent -is not paid. How can we 

 pay it ? The gentlemen who moved and seconded the motion 

 for adjournment appear very uneasy about that second paper, 

 bat it really seems to me to refer to details which are of no real 



moment. It is a sort of mutual accommodation — not, I hope, 

 on the Collie system [a laugh], and one that, I think, will tend 

 to the favourable working of the Society. Then comes the 

 question, Can we raise our income to £10,000? I think by 

 raising the subscriptions to two guineas or three, and in other 

 ways it can be done. I think on the whole the terms come to 

 are favourable. We are not in a position to dictate terms to the 

 Commissioners, and I don't think we can do better than accept 

 those we have now obtained [hear, hearj. 



Dr. Masters expressed his unqualified disappointment at the 

 Keport presented to the Fellows by the CouDcil. It was no 

 doubt a fact that they could not wriggle out of their engage- 

 ments with Her Majesty's Commissioners. They were all, un- 

 fortunately, too well aware of that. It was all very well to have 

 a dog tied-up and a collar put upon his neck, but in this case, 

 taking the Society as the animal, handcuffs, chains, and every 

 conceivable kind of restrictive instruments were put upon him, 

 so that the unfortunate dog couldn't even wag his tail [laughter] . 

 Under the tenth clause the Society could not get a housemaid 

 to dust their windows, to sweep-out their premises, or, in fact, 

 do a single thing [hear, hear]. 



Mr. Hauohton thought there was some misapprehension aa 

 to the tenth clause. It so happened an agreement was entered 

 into some time ago between the two corporations. The Com- 

 missioners had erected the towers over the orchard house, also 

 some buildings of minor importance, and one also of great im- 

 portance — the communication between the Royal Albert Hall 

 and the upper part of the conservatory. These they had always 

 the use of, and it would be exceedingly dishonest in the Society 

 to interfere with the enjoyment of them by the Commissioners 

 now [hear, hear]. The clause was simply to secure the Com- 

 missioners in the right of enjoyment of those structures. 



Dr. Masters. — I accept your explanation, I am bound to do 

 so, but your explanation shows the necessity of adjourning the 

 Meeting [hear, hear]. That clause may alter the complexion 

 of the whole thing. 



Mr. Hauohton — We will be most happy to give any explana- 

 tion, but we wish every Fellow who likes to do so to express 

 his opinion. 



Dr. Mastees. — Well, I have expressed my objection. 



Mr. PoBTER was understood to object to the admission of the 

 public free to the gardens. 



Mr. Bateman thought it would be well if some of the gentle- 

 men who were disposed to criticise the acts of the Council re- 

 membered that neither the present nor the last Council nor 

 the Council before that were in any way responsible for the 

 arrangements which had led to all these difficulties [hear, hear]. 

 If that were only borne in mind all acerbity and hard words 

 wonld be felt to be out of place there. Looking at the reports 

 of their recent Meetings, he conld speak positively that they 

 had acted very injuriously on the prospects of the Society [hear, 

 hear]. People hesitated to join a Society which was in such 

 a state of chronic commotion. He did not think any mere 

 legal instruments would effectually help the Society out of its 

 difficulties. As the late Lord Derby said with respect to the 

 National Gallery dispute — that the worst decision was better 

 than no decision at all; and so, although there were some 

 matters in the agreements he did not like, it was, he thought, 

 better to adopt them than adjourn the Meeting for two months. 

 If they adjourned at all it should be for three months. He 

 decidedly thought, from personal knowledge, that the constitu- 

 tion of the present Council had the right ring in it. They must 

 not criticise too closely the terms of the agreements — indeed he 

 could get over any but the tenth clause. He did not understand 

 it, and before they were called upon to agree to it they ought to 

 have a schedule attached so that they might know where they 

 stood. With the exception of the tenth clause he should be pre- 

 pared to give his assent to the arrangements come to with Her 

 Majesty's Commissioners [hear, hear]. He did not believe 

 there was any definite motion before the Meeting. 



Mr. HiEEERD. — Oh, indeed there is. 



The Chairman.— Yes, there is a motion for adjournment of 

 the Meeting. 



Mr. David Wooster referred to the sixth clause— viz., " The 

 Society shall not accept any more life compositions without the 

 written consent of the Commissioners." Mr. Wooster said he 

 was under the impression that there was a clause in the Charter 

 which required the Council to set aside a certain portion of the 

 life compositions to form a sinking fund for the ultimate redemp- 

 tion of the debenture debt [hear, hear]. There was another 

 clause which enjoined the Council to reserve three-fifths of the 

 earnings of the gardens after legitimate expenses were paid. 

 Now, in common justice to the debenture holders, if that clause 

 remained could they enter into an agreement to that effect? 

 He had seen with great regret some of the acts of the Com- 

 missioners with respect to the Council. The access to the 

 offices had been cut off, the room in which they were then met 

 was a common passage room, and they could not hear. He 

 wished to know whether the Commissioners had any right to 

 the upper arcades on the north-east and north-west part of the 



