42 
trade. He could remember when the average death rate in 
Burnley was 28 per thousand, but now they had got to 22, and 
the same was true of the country, so that on the grounds of 
health there was no case for interference. The operatives and 
their leaders thought there was a glut in the trade but the wages 
should not be reduced. ‘They said, therefore, that they would 
cease labour, the articles would be reduced in quantity, the 
price maintained, and the wages not reduced. In every case the 
wages had been the chief argument for the shortening of hours. 
But the reduction of wages was only a temporary difficulty, and 
ought to be met with temporary expedients, but they were pro- 
posing to meet it with a permanent remedy and would land 
themselves into difficulties. Alderman Greenwood then pro- 
ceeded to quote at some considerable length figures as to the 
state of the cotton trade at different periods. Mr. David Holmes 
had stated to an interviewer that they had practically no com- 
petitor except India, but he was just as wrong as wrong could 
be. In regard to both the consumption of the raw material and 
the exports of the manufactured article—cloth and yarn—they 
were decidedly losing in the race. He next spoke of the 
stationary condition of the cotton trade in respect to the absence 
of development, and the small return upon capital. Concluding, 
he said that it would mean so serious a reduction of wages as to 
do away with any benefit which might accrue for the shorter 
hours, and expressed surprise that Mr. Holmes and other trades 
unionist leaders should allow themselves to be led astray. 
Alderman Thornber, while agreeing with Alderman Greenwood 
in respect to women and children, differed about adult male 
labour. If miners could get what they wanted by organisation, 
why should it not apply equally to signalmen and chemical 
workers ? He believed the trades unions were capable of dealing 
with the matter. The work of mule-spinners was quite as 
laborious as that of miners, but not perhaps so dangerous, and 
where were they going to draw the line? ‘They were extending 
the making of plain cloths on the Continent, and he believed 
also elaborate cloths were being imported into this country. 
When a similar subject had been discussed previously, he had 
stated that the plain trade would be the first to be taken from 
them, and it would be better for the people to go into the more 
intricate trades. He was not surprised at the trades unionist 
leaders taking up the question, as it seemed to be one of courting 
popular favour, like other leaders. He did not know whether 
they had any leaders now or not. They had not men like 
John Bright, who fearlessly spoke his opinion, but went the 
way popular favour led them. 
Mr, Joshua Rawlinson said he thought it was rather singular 
to hear Alderman Greenwood’s doleful prophesies. Referring 
