1817.] Education Committee of the House of Commons: 



many of them from inferior situations ; 

 they have risen from tlieir attention to 

 business, and good ediicatioii. Several 

 of our lord mayors have risen from clerks' 

 situations. 



Have tliey cliiefly risen by their own 

 merit, and having had tiie advantages of 

 a useful education? — Yes, I conceive so, 

 and a steadiness and perseverance in 

 their conduct. 



Is there much difference between the 

 moral character of the Scotcli and Irish? 

 — No one, who has been accus'omed to 

 visit them at their own habitations, can 

 have failed to observe a marked and de- 

 cided distinction. 



Whence does this distinction arise? 

 —The Scotch are constantly taught, 

 when young, to read their Bibles, and 

 accustomed to moral and religious in- 

 struction. 



From your knowledge of the trading 

 world, and of the children of the poor, 

 do you think a more extensive plan of 

 education would he a public benefit? — I 

 think it would be one of the greatest 

 public benefits. 



Would it, in your opinion, lessen pub- 

 lic crimes? — I have no doubt ol it; for 

 the mo't guilty criminal characters are 

 commonly the most ignorant; in fact we 

 cannot get thc;u to stay in our schools ; 

 We have sometimes gathered them from 

 tlie highways, and brought them into our 

 schools, but we could never keep them 

 long together. 



From your knowledge of the benefits 

 of education, is it your opinion that a 

 more extended plan would greatly pro- 

 mote the public benefit? — I think it 

 would exceedingly so ; in Wales, owing 

 to the general establishment of Sunday 

 schools there, in one or two of the 

 counties the prison-doors have been 

 thrown open, and 1 attribute it to edu- 

 cation, because nearly every individnal 

 throughout those counties attended the 

 schools. 



Tlie Rev. Wm. Johnson. 



You arc master, chaplain, and ac- 

 comptant, of the Central National 

 school, situated in Baldwin's-gardens? 

 — I am. 



How many children are educated 

 there? — Aliont 860 boys and girls. 



How many boys and how many girls? 

 — Five hundred and sixty boys, and 

 three hundred guls. 



Do you receive the children of per- 

 sons not members of the Church of Eng- 

 land ? — Yes, we do ; there is no question 

 ever put to auy parent icspecting tbeir 

 religion. 



531 



What sort of religious instruction do 

 you give the children? — The course of 

 religious instractipn is, we begin with 

 the Lord's Prayer, a short grace before 

 and after meat, the two first collects at 

 morning and evening service, taken 

 from the Liturgy of the Church of Eng- 

 land ; a prayer on taking their place in 

 church, and on leaving it ; the church 

 catecliisu), and then the same broken 

 into short questions; and the highest 

 class of children, or classes, use Cross- 

 man's Introduction to the Christian 

 Religion. 



Do you take those children to church? 

 — The school-room is licensed, not hav- 

 ing any uccommodatic u in the church ; 

 the majority of tliem attend divine ser- 

 vice there, according to the form of the 

 Church of England ; but, on an average, 

 one hiuidrcdgo to the (larisii church. 



Have you in fact, according to the 

 best of your knowledge, many ciiildren 

 of Disseiiters in that establislunent ? — 

 Many are Dissenters, and Dissenters of 

 every description. 



As nearly as you can estimate, how 

 many may there be? — I cannot tell that 

 exactly. 



Are there twenty? — More than that ; 

 I might say one-third, if not one-half, 

 are Dissenters ; and at this time we have 

 seven Jews. 



Do you include in your class of Dis- 

 senters the o'liidren of people called 

 Methodists? — Certainly; and also those 

 wiiose parents go to Spahehls chapel. 



What is the yearly ex{)ense of Bald- 

 win's-garden school ? — Tlie yearly ex- 

 pense is nearly 1801. a-year. I act both 

 as acconiplant and fhajilaiu, and in the 

 eajiaf.ity of the under-secrelary to the 

 national schools generallj', as well as 

 schoolmaster. 



What is your salary altogether ? — One 

 hundred and fifty pounds a-year. 



How nuich of that as schooiuiaster? 

 —I should think about 80/. or lOOL; but 

 it is not kept separate. 



What is ihe yearly expense of slates, 

 books, Slc. as nearly as you can tell ? — 

 The books, as far as I can judge, about 

 201. a-ycar; slates and pencils, 10/. or. 

 12/. This calculation I take to be con- 

 siderably over the mark ; for a complete 

 set of our elementary books cost only 

 six-pence, and i\w same set of books, 

 on an average, will serve three children 

 in succession, before the books are worq 

 out. Each slafe costs three-halfpence;' 

 the pencils, two-pence; pens and ink, 

 two-pence halfpenny; making ciglit- 

 pcncc for each child. AVe do not use 

 3 Y 2 paper 



