1824.J 



on Artizans and Machineri/. 



un lersland a word of Eno^lish would be 

 al)le lo fahiicalc those uiaciiiiics from 

 the drawings. 



Then the piihlinatioiis of that society, 

 and every otiier tending: to extend 

 science, are in contradiction to those 

 laws to whicii tlie questions refer? — 

 They give foreigners ail the advantage 

 of our own knowledge, and give them 

 the means of faljricating all which we 

 know with as much readiness as any 

 native of Uiis country can possess; and, 

 in many instance^ patent machines are 

 known sooner in France than they are 

 in this country. 



You are acquainted with M. Dupin! 

 — lam: he is a most ahle man, and 

 possesses great mechanicul knowledge. 

 Are you not aware that he had every 

 facility afforded him by the government 

 in going over our naval and military 

 arsenals? — Yes; and some gentlemen 

 from Holland, and different parts of the 

 Continent, had the same facilities. 



Are you not aware that he has pub- 

 lished plans of every description of 

 machinery used in those naval and mili- 

 tary arsenals? — He has, in fact, applied 

 to me for drawings. 



Did your foreman go to Russia? — 

 Yes, lie did ; with many other Engiisii 

 workmen. 



Are you aware of any number of 

 artizans, whicli were enticed to Russia 

 at Uiat time? — A cosisidcrable number. 

 Are there any impediments, to any 

 extent, lo the exporliition of machinery 

 to South America? — 1 believe not: I 

 believe I have sent more than any other 

 individual in London. 



Then, if the laws now existing were 

 repealed, why should there be more 

 facility in the exportation to South 

 America than at present? — I take espe- 

 cial care never to manufacture ma- 

 chinery that I cannot with some 

 certainty send ; tlierefore the exporta- 

 tions that have taken place have not 

 been regulated by the wants of the 

 people so much as by what [ was ena- 

 bleii to send. If certain orders had 

 been sent for Trance, 1 should not have 

 executed them ; but, if 1 had found 

 tliey were going to South America, I 

 should have gone a little further. We 

 have been obliged to speculate in that 

 way : for example, I have an or<ler for 

 a copper-mill at this time, wliich will 

 consist of flatting-mill rolls, Sec. and I 

 know it would be of no use to take it in 

 h^nd, if it was ft^r I'rance or North 

 America; because 1 know it would be 

 stopped by our Cuslom-houso ofliccrs. 



325 



You state that, if the laws were re- 

 pealed, wo slioulil supply the whole 

 world with machinery? — I think so: 

 the reason is, because no country can 

 do it half so well, all circumstances 

 considered. 



If you sell a machine to a person 

 abroad, do you conceive you have the 

 power of sending your own men lo put 

 it up, without rendering yourself liable 

 to the laws for enticing citizens out of 

 the country ? — I am afraid wc are; we 

 have been obliged to resort to it, but 

 with great caution and dread: for in- 

 stance, as to the fixing of steam-engines, 

 I have no doubt that our men, if it was 

 generally known they were going on sucli 

 an errand, would be stopped ; and that, 

 unless they are sent lo fix such engines, 

 in a foreign country tliey would be use- 

 less ; and, because they could not be |)ut 

 together, we should not be paid. I am 

 making some steam-engines for the Conti- 

 nent, the contractors for whicli say they 

 will not pay me until they are put up, and 

 set to work : now into what a painful 

 situation should I be put, if my men 

 were prevented going to fix my engines! 

 llicy must either remain useless there, 

 or be sent back again, with all the 

 expenses incurred by an useless transit. 



Are not artizans enticed out of the 

 country by foreigners and by English- 

 men ? — Tlurc have been a considerable 

 number, in the last six or seven years, 

 enticed both by foreigners and English 

 residing in foreign countries. 



How do they get out of the country ? 

 — The most prudent of them have gene- 

 rally said they had some business, and 

 wished to go into Ihc country lo see 

 llieir friends: they have got leave of 

 absence for a few days, and we heard 

 no more of them till we were informed 

 they had quitted the country. My 

 foreman, whom I took when a youth, 

 and for whom 1 even sustained an action 

 under the 5th of Elizabeth, for employ- 

 ing him because he had not been legally 

 apprenticed, was induced to go to Rus- 

 sia; and, alter coming down lo my 

 country-house on the Sunday, and ask- 

 ing permission to go and see his friends 

 in Yorkshire, he not only had engaged 

 then to go to Russia, but induced seve- 

 ral of my men lo go with him. 



Under what denomination arc lliey 

 cntere<l at the Custom-house? — It is 

 im|)ossible for me lo say : they call 

 liiemselves labourers or farmers ; there 

 is no difficulty in thus evading the law. 



Then the law is merely \cxatious; it 



dots not, in fact, prevent their going? — 



I Tiavo 



