4?4 Important Evidence before the Committee 



siicli DCftiiB as I thou)!:>it nooossary to What was the penalty 



niJike every enquiry, rtiiy weic ^one 



HWiiy, liut llicy were to sleep at a pub- 



lie-lioiise tiiiil alteriiooii, and were to "^o 



<l()\vii to Graveseiui llie day fidlowiii;; ; 



hut, ill the mean time, the Bow-street 



tifliceis had intbnriatioii of it IVoni a 



t;i'iitU.Miia!i at Mai;ciiester, and they 



were taken into custody, and caified oil'. 



Tliat is the only instance I know of 



where any tliinii; official has been slated 



to me as to detaining ;irtificcis. 



(Mr. Loijd.) In several instances the 

 olBcers have discovered that artificers 

 were about to leave the kingdoui; but 

 as the law docs not prohibit artificers 

 iroui leaving the kingdom, lint from go- 

 ing out ot the kingdom to teach tlieir 

 trade to foreigners, or to exeicise it in 

 foreign parts; a man being merely sns- 

 jiccled of being an artificer, or known 

 to be an aiti(i(;er, we conceive we h;ive 

 no autiiority to detain him, unless we 

 efin prove for what purpose he is going 

 tibrcwid. 



Tlien, in point of fact, the laws are 

 nllc/gether inoperative to prevent t!ie 

 etnigratinn of artificers? — Perfectly so. 



(To Mr. St. John.) Do von tliiiik tLe 

 laws havi' beeu etlicient to prevent those 

 julielcs which are stated in the 25lh and 

 2Gth ofGeo. III. from being exported.' — • 

 The laws are certainly etiieient, hut they 

 iiie not acted up to: for, where any 

 jjoods are discovered of tiiat description 

 l.eing exp(Ht<(), tliey are generally re- 

 .'loii'd by an order of the 'J'reasury, or 

 by ail Older of our Board, munyofthcm 

 restoied without any cooipensafion ; the 

 ]ienallies frrqin-ntly viaixed, and the 

 ^odds re.stoied to the parties, some on a 

 Satisf.tClion, and sonje wilhout any. 



Do you reminiber anv iiislanees 

 wlicrc coiideiii.'iaiion has followed the 

 (letcelioii ? — 1 can nienlioii easi's withiu 

 this 3ear aiid a-half. 'j'wo cases, con- 

 taining large iron rollers, were disco- 

 vered by me, entered as agrienldiral 

 iiistminents, in the uaiue of Mr. Ware. 

 Those goods were seizetl by me, con- 

 demoi d ill the Court of Exchequer, and 

 sold at the Ki:ig's s;il''. They were 

 ••ntered fiir exportjition at forty pounds: 

 1 nas alterward.s told, the sum liii'} cost 

 was eighty pounds; but thi y soiilai only 

 lour pounds at the Custom-house. 



Were they sold for exjiorlatioii ? — • 

 No; they were piohibiled to be exported. 

 Att(!rwards, a prosecniion was com- 

 menced against AJr. Dubois: he wa.s 

 loiind suilty, and was .sent to Sfafford- 

 {Taid, on Hccouiit of Hot beiiij; able to pay 

 the penalty. 



[June I, 



Two hun- 

 dred pounds. 



Js that the only instance yon recollect? 

 — That is the only instance of condem- 

 nation I recollcel. 



Do yon believe that the laws are 

 often evaded in the exportation of 

 machinery ? — Very often, indeed : 

 for it is exceedingly difficult to detect 

 it. There are vast numbers of pack- 

 ages which we open, where there are 

 parts of machinery packed with other 

 iron and steel articles from Birmingham, 

 [lurposely packed for decei)tioii; and it 

 is almost an impossibility for an officer 

 to know whether they are or are not 

 prohibited, being only parts of ma- 

 chinery. 



By what rule do you go? — The Act 

 of Parliament savs, that such and sueli 

 articles shall not be exported: if a 

 merchant tenders his entry for a parti- 

 cular article, which we think is prohi- 

 bited, we should ohjett to the entry in 

 its first stage; we should say, " This is 

 a prohibited article." If a merchant 

 were to tender an entry for a steam- 

 engine, we should say, " We know no 

 law to prevent the exportation of a 

 fiteam-etigine." 



Kvery new machine that may henee- 

 forth be made, as the law now exists, 

 may be ex[;0:teo ? — Provided tliey are 

 not so compose<l in the v\hoIe or in 

 part of those particular parts of ma- 

 chinery vvhicii fall wilhin the Act of 

 I'arJiament. 



(Mr. Humr.) It depends upon the 

 use of the thing in a great measure, 

 Avhethcr it is for woollen or cotton ina- 

 luifaetnre ; if for one of those purposes, 

 it would, I conceive, be prohibited. 



( !\Ir. Biiyd.) A new machine, disco- 

 vered io-inorrow, in the cotton, linen, 

 woollen, or silk, manufacture, wouhl be 

 as much prohiliiled as any discovered 

 fifty 3eaisago: but in the iron or steel 

 manulaeture, it is only those by name. 

 Mr. Alexander Richmond. 



During the linn von were at Glas- 

 gow, had 30U any connexion with com- 

 binations of workmen, who were united 

 on the score of wages? — I vva.s connect- 

 ed for four or five jears with several 

 applications that were made to Parlia- 

 uient first, which afterwards ended in a 

 ]iroseculion before the eoiiits in Scot- 

 land, for the establishing a rate of 

 wages. 



Were yon one of the delegates ap- 



pointed by l!ie \w)ikmen in Glasgow ? — 



Y^-s : on the laiinr<- of the last appli- 



" catiou to Parliament, the associalioii 



turned 



