Important Evidence on Artizans and Machlneiy. 



4e6' 



Are tlic wages nearly (he same at the 

 present nxmient as they were in the year 

 1810?— Tliere is not live per cent, dif- 

 ference in the whole manutacturo. 



Wliat has been the consequence of 

 such depression of wages on the moral 

 conduct of those masses wliicii you 

 speak of? — Some branches are further 

 advanced in the progress than others, 

 but demoralization has uniformly been 

 found to keep pace with the depression ; 

 in some of the districts very nearly simi- 

 lar eflects are produced by it which are 

 found to have operated for a length of 

 time upon the peasantry of Ireland. I 

 wish to state, that the improvement of 

 the advance from 1820 consists only in 

 full employment being got, Ijut no ma- 

 terial advance in any department in the 

 price of labour from its lowest depres- 

 sion: the people are almost fully em- 

 ployed. The year the greatest degree 

 of suflering took place, there were a 

 great many unemployed. 



On the average, what did your work- 

 men receive just previous to the strike 

 in 1812? — The average rale of wages to 

 the first class of vtorkmcn was about fif- 

 teen shillings a-week. 



Are the Committee to understand, 

 that one effect of removing all legisla- 

 tive interference, would be to produce a 

 better understanding and feeling be- 

 tween masters and men? — As far as my 

 experience goes, f have no hesitation in 

 stating that it would. 



Do you think that the men, through 

 their committees, would be unreason- 

 able in their demands ? — I have stated 

 that, as far as my experience goes, I do 

 not think they would. 



Are there any other good effects, that 

 you can state to the Committee, likely 

 to arise from removing all legislative 

 interference?— I think it would have a 

 tendency to reconcile the spjiarated in- 

 terests that, particularly since the de- 

 pression, prevails through the whole of 

 the manufacturing districts: a line of 

 demarcation has been drawn, in conse- 

 quence of the reduction, and the little 

 intercourse that has subsisted between 

 the masters and the workmen ; that a 

 rooted antipathy has been engendered 

 in the minds of the labouring classes 

 against the higher ranks; and I think it 

 would have a great tendency to reduce 

 that bitterness of feeling. 



Do not you know that in 1817 there 

 was a nineh greater distress in the ma- 

 nufacturing districts than was ever 

 known btlore ? — Yes. 



Do not you know that iu 1816 every 



Jiufe \y 



market almost on the Continent, and 

 every part of the world, Wiis so glutted 

 with our produce, as to have in some 

 cases fifteen, sixteen, and eighteen, 

 montlis^ consumption? — Yes; and, in 

 some instances, three years' consump- 

 tion. 



Do not wages essentially depend on 

 supply and demand? — Yes, I admit the 

 principle ; but the only cjucstion is, whe- 

 ther any regulation left to the parties, or 

 otherwise, is not better. 



When trade is brisk, are not the mas- 

 ters more in the power of the men than 

 the workmen are of the masters ? — No ; 

 for ten or fifteen years there is not any 

 instance of the masters of any branches, 

 where the workmen are numerous, be- 

 ing at all in their power : when iliey 

 were not so numerous, before tLe prin- 

 ciple of speculating upon the price of 

 labour became so universal, they were 

 in their power frequently; but never 

 since. 



Does not the circumstance of the 

 masters competing one against another, 

 raise the price of wages? — In one state 

 it invariably will, but fur ten years in 

 the large branches the redtmdance of 

 the hands has always more than met the 

 demand, in coni>equence of which it is 

 not in actual operation: the probable 

 effect of a regulation would be to pro- 

 duce a rise in prosperous times; the 

 moral condition of the people would bo 

 improved by that means, and a check to 

 population would necessarily follow 

 irom that moral improvement. 



Are all the evils, then, wliich fol- 

 lowed to be attributed to the parties 

 not being left to settle their ow n dif- 

 ferences? — I am decidedly of opinion, 

 tliat in that particular case the differ- 

 ences would have been arranged w ithout 

 any difScnltyal all, if there had beenuo 

 interference between the parties. 



In the great combination you were 

 connected wit!), was there any mixture 

 of political opinion with it? — Not at all : 

 it was altogether a commercial question, 

 altogether unconnected witli politics. 



Have you had any knowledge of the 

 manner in which the ariizsus iu different 

 branches in Ireland conduct themselves, 

 as compared with what you have stated 

 to have taken place in Scotland ? — I 

 believe the combination question in 

 Ireland, amongst trades, may be con- 

 fined to Dublin almost wlioUy. I know 

 that combinations have always existed 

 in Ireland. A number of them are in 

 regular correspondence with London : 

 the cabiuet-niakers, for instance. The 

 upholsterers, 



