54] ANNUAL REGISTER, 1817. 



the same subject. One of these 

 was that of the Roman Catholic 

 nobility and other respectable 

 persons of the laity; the other that 

 of the prelates and clergy of the 

 Roman Catholic church. Both of 

 these parties were equally desirous 

 of again offering their petitions 

 to the view of their lordships ; it 

 is necessary, therefore (said the 

 Earl) that the House should be 

 perfectly aware that they have now 

 before them the whole Catholic 

 people of Ireland, represented by 

 these, their humble petitioners. 



His lordship proceeded to say, 

 that thinking it his duty to ab- 

 stain as much as possible from all 

 generalities, he should prefer lay- 

 ing the case of the petitioners 

 before the House in the shape of 

 a refutation of those calumnies 

 with which they have been so in- 

 dustriously loaded. In the course 

 which he had chalked out for 

 himself, the first objection which 

 occurred might seem rather to 

 suit the period when their lord- 

 ships had gone into a committee. 

 The Catholics might previously 

 be asked, " What is your object ? 

 We will not go into a committee to 

 grope our way in the dark, and 

 seek out principles for you." But 

 it appears from the public press 

 that securities of a threefold na- 

 ture have been devised ; namely, 

 domestic nomination ; the secu- 

 rity called the veto ; and the pay- 

 ment by government of the Ca- 

 tholic church. With respect to 

 domestic nomination, the enemies 

 of the Catholics say that this is no 

 new security at all, for such has 

 been the ancient mode of electing 

 Catholic bishops almost without 

 an excei)tion. But though this is 

 giving nothing new, looking to 



the present practice, yet a great 

 deal is given in confirming for 

 ever the principle of domestic no- 

 mination. As to the veto, his 

 lordshij) acknowledged he cannot 

 offer that, since he certainly dis- 

 approves of it as a member of 

 Parliament, being convinced that 

 it would commit the Catholic 

 prelacy and priesthood most effec- 

 tually to the Irish provincial go- 

 vernment. He objected also to the 

 payment of the Catholic church 

 by the state, as a mode wliich 

 would destroy the just reward 

 whicli they receive for their reli- 

 gious labours. My meas\ire, said 

 his lordship, is a direct and abso- 

 lute nomination, which is what I 

 mean to propose if you shall be 

 pleased to go into a committee. 



The Earl then answered those 

 arguments which he found scat- 

 tered here and there in different 

 publications relative to the sub- 

 ject. In general they seemed to 

 require little attention ; but one, 

 which bears hard on the Pope 

 for his anathemas against sending 

 forth the Scriptures among Catho- 

 lics without a commentary, re- 

 ceived a retort which, as respect- 

 ing the Pope, appears unanswer- 

 able. If it can be shown (says 

 his lordship) that reverend divines 

 of high rank in this country have 

 held a similar principle, then this 

 act cannot be alleged against the 

 head of the Catholic church as an 

 intolerant one. There are, my 

 Lords, two members of that re- 

 verend bench who are most 

 strongly opposed to the system of 

 disseminating the Bible without 

 a suitable comment. I wisli to 

 avoid any possible misrepresenta- 

 tion, and to pay every mark of 

 respect to the right reverend pre- 

 late 



