192 ORAL ARGUMENT OF JAMES C. CARTER, ESQ. 



female, and take a liniidred thousand of them, you diminish the herd 

 at first by that 100,000; but you will soon redut-e the size of the herd 

 to a number, below wliicli this annual draft of 100,000 — that particuiai- 

 number I assume — will not carry it. Tliey continue the same. Of 

 course it is the same with seals as it is with any other ])olygnmous 

 animal, the same as it is with sheep or hoises or cows. You can take 

 a certain number of males without in any degree diminishing the nnm 

 bers of tlie herd. It is a matter, not of scientific knowledge alone; it is 

 a matter not for abstruse investigation. It is a matter of common 

 barnyard observation. That is all it is. 



I have stated as a fact which I sui)pose to be capable of substantia- 

 tion that, taking this particular herd of seals, you can make a draft 

 upon it of 100,000 young males without any danger to the stock, and 

 without diminishing the normal numbers of the herd. What is the 

 evidence upon which that statement can be supported"? Of course 

 ex])erience must ah)ne determine the question of how many you can 

 take; because we do not know what the number is of the different 

 sexes on the island. We do not know how many males there are, and 

 we do not know how many females there are. We do not know how 

 many are destroyed annually. We have no knowledge of that sort to 

 a|)})eal to; and of course we must rely ou experience alone. But we 

 have a very long exjjericnce. 



The President. Are the seals counted on the islands? 



Ml'. Carter. No. 



The President. No one knows their numbers'? 



Mr. Carter. Oh no; attempts have been made to estimate their 

 numbers in ways like these. Those occupying a space, say, 100 feet 

 square would be counted, and then the whole area would be ascertained 

 and upon the assumption that each 100 feet contained as many, a com- 

 putation would be made; but all accounts now agree that all the 

 methods now relied upon for the purpose of determining what the pre- 

 cise number there is are only misleading. You can say there are more 

 than a million; but whether there are two, or three, or four, or five, 

 millions, no man knows or can know. Conjectures have been made, 

 and conclusions have been stated by observers, based upon conjecture, 

 and those statements have received a certain degree of credence; but 

 the result of the evidence is that it is impossible to tell with any 

 ajjproach even to precision, what the numbers are; and the failure to 

 reach accuracy is so complete that it is best not to rely upon any 

 atteinjjts. 



The President. As a matter of fact, the herdsman does not know 

 much of his herd, except as to killing part of the increase? 



Mr. Carter. He does not know liow many there are; that is very 

 certain. He knows, however, that there are a great many there. I 

 have said that a draft of 100,000, can be made from this i)articular 

 herd. The evidence of that is this. 



The Kussians discovered those islands in 1786 or 1787. They did 

 not know, or if they did know, paid no attention to, the laws of nature 

 in reference to the increase of these animals aiul the decrease of them; 

 and they made indiscriminate drafts upon them, taking both males 

 and females. They were governed probably by the consideration of 

 the state of the market — how many the market would take ])rotitably. 

 Of course it would not do lo throw a very great many upon the 

 market, because that would not be profitable. But this sort of indis- 

 criminate attack upon them very soon gieatly reduced the numbers 

 of the herd. They then found themselves compelled to take notice of 



