206 ORAL ARGUMENT OF JAMES C. CARTER, ESQ. 



Senator Morgan. That was in the hope of a proper adjustnieut of 

 tliis question. 



Mr. Carter. It was a looking forward on the part of the United 

 States to a concurrence in any measures which this Tribunal might 

 adopt which would insure the preservation of tlie fur-seal. 



The President. What 1 wanted to come to, if you will allow me to 

 make my i)oint a little more clear, is this: According to the 5th ques- 

 tion of our article 6 we have to determine whether there is a right of 

 l)roi)erty and ])rotection in these seals. 1 think your contention is that 

 there is a legal right of pro])erty and protection. 



Mr. Carter. Yes; it is. 



The President. That is for the United States; but you do not 

 admit of a legal right or a moral right for the lessees of the United 

 States to claim the right of property and protection. I think what Mr. 

 Senator Morgan just explained accounts for that. 



Mr. Carter. Yes. 



The President. I wanted to make the distinction clear. 



Mr. Carter. Yes; I apprehend. If these islands were not in the 

 possession of the United States Government, but were in the posses- 

 sion of private individuals, I think there would be a moral right on the 

 part of those individuals to call upon the United States Government to 

 exercise its powers on the high seas to prevent the destruction of those 

 seals. 



The President. That is what the United States demand from us 

 to day? 



Mr. Carter. It is what the United States demand from you to day. 

 It is what I am now endeavoring to show to this Tribunal. I am taking 

 one step, and that is to say that the United States has a right of prop- 

 erty here. My next step will be that having that right of property, 

 they have a right to go there with force and protect it; and my next 

 step will be that if they have not the right to go there with force and 

 protect it, you ought to pass some regulation giving them that right. 



The President. Then they do not protect their own property, — as 

 yet, against the pelagic sealing. 



Mr. Carter. They do not protect their own property as yet, for the 

 reason that they do not want to disturb the peace of the world. 



The President. Would it disturb the peace of the world if they 

 were to act against their own citizens engaged in pelagic sealing? 



Mr. Carter. No; not at all ; and we continue to act against our own 

 citizens. 



The President. No, you do not do that. You do not act against 

 your own citizens everywhere. 



Mr. Carter. So far as our laws go. 



The President. I say your laws do not go as far as your contention. 



Mr. Carter. No; the laws do not go as far as our contention goes. 

 The Congress of the United States is a different body from the execu- 

 tive department of the United States. The executive department of 

 tlie United States submits questions of law, takes its position, here. I 

 am here for the pur})ose of arguing them. Perhaps the Congress of 

 the United States may not have gone through all the processes of rea- 

 soning which I have gone through. They act upon their own views 

 and ui)on their own conclusions. They have taken the ground and have 

 evinced their intention of jtrotecting these fur-seals, and protecting them 

 for their own benetit, against the attacks of pelagic sealing, from what- 

 ever quarter— their own citizens or others. They nnry have supposed 

 that their powers were conliued to Bering Sea, and therefore limited 



