ORAL ARGUMENT OF JAMES C. CARTER, ESQ. 267 



that if the fact should appear that the race would be exterminated 

 unless protection were extended to them in the North Pacific Ocean as 

 well, Great Britain would, under those circumstances, be willing: that 

 the seals should be exterminated. Can it be imputed to Great Britain 

 that she intended to preserve this race of seals only in case it could be 

 preserved by regulations operative upon Bering Sea"? What differ- 

 ence does it make where the regulations should be operative"? If the 

 important point be that the seals should be preserved for the benefit of 

 mankind, then they should be jjreserved by regulations extending over 

 any seas where Great Britain and the United States can make them 

 operative; and of course they can give them operation all over the 

 "world so far as they themselves are concerned. 



The President. Outside the territorial waters. 



Mr. Carter. Yes. Of course not in the territorial waters, not in 

 the tliree-mile limit. That is a limitation; but outside of those terri- 

 torial waters. If it turns out, in point of fact, that regulations opera- 

 tive upon the North Pacific are necessary, I say, it would be imputing 

 to Great Britain a piece of insincerity to say that, she did not intend 

 or did not desire, to have the race of fur-seals preserved in such a case 

 as that. If she is sincere in her intention to preserve the race of seals, 

 she must desire that they shall be preserved by regulations which wull 

 be eflicient to that end, whether they are operative in the Bering Sea 

 alone, or whether they are operative in the North Pacific as well. 



But that there was any such notion as that entertained by the parties 

 to the treaty is entirely inconsistent with their views as expressed in 

 the diplomatic correspondence. I refer to the draft convention sub- 

 mitted by Sir Julian Pauncefote, which will be found in Volume I, 

 United States Appendix, page 311. The fifth article of that is as fol- 

 lows: 



A commission of four experts (that is, a commission of experts should be appointed). 



Two nominated by each Government, and a chairman nominated by the arbitra- 

 tors, if appointed, and, if not, by the aforesaid commission, shall examine and report 

 on the following question : 



What international arrangements, if any, between Great Britain and the United 

 States and Russia or any otlier power, are necessary for the purpose of preserving 

 the fur-seal race in the northern Pacific Ocean from extermination? 



That is the first suggestion of a commission of experts — of a Tribunal, 

 to contrive measures for the preservation of the fur-seals. It comes 

 from Great Britain, and the suggestion is not of measures confined to 

 Bering Sea at all, but of measures operative upon the North Pacific 

 Ocean as well, and designed to protect not only the seals belonging to 

 the Pribilof Islands, but the seals of Eussia also. It is a suggestion 

 of a scheme for the protection of the fur-seal all over the North Pacific 

 Ocean. 



And Sir Julian Pauncefote also, at a later period, in a letter written 

 on the 11th of June, 1891, when the negotiations in relation to the 

 Treaty were in progress, and had nearly been brought to a conclusion, 

 says — I read from tlie third paragraph on page 315: 



Nevertheless, in view of the urgency of the case, his Lordship — 



(His Lordship, of course, is Lord Salisbury.) 



is disposed to authorize me to sign the agreement in the precise terms formulated 

 in your note of June 9, provided the ([uestion of a .joint commission be not left in 

 doubt and that your Government will give an assurance in some form that she will 

 concur in a refer('n<-e to a joint commission to ascertain what permanent measures 

 are necessary for the preservation of the fur-seal species in the Northern Pacilic 

 Ocean. 



