29 G ORAL ARGUMENT OF FREDERICK R. COUDERT, ESQ. 



the consideration of this High Tribunal and of the attention that it sihall 

 give it. It is not only the protection of our property; it is the estab- 

 livshinent of a great and beneficent principle which will operate for the 

 whole human race. 



So much for the raids. 



Senator MoiKiAN. Mr, Coudert, I wish to iiKjuire of you, whether 

 you have examined into the question whether under the treaty between 

 the United States and Great Britain the citizens of each country have 

 not the right to enter the territory of the other for any innocent pur- 

 pose without being prohibited? 



Mr. CouDEET. 1 suppose that this is conceded. There is no ques- 

 tion about it; and when I speak of pelagic sealing I am speaking of a 

 criminal act. The seals open to all for innocent pnrjjoses; and I might 

 concede, for the sake of the argument, that the British sealer has just as 

 much right to kill seals as the American sealer. It is stated in argument 

 that a great many Americans are engaged in it and in fact we claim 

 and contend that imdato nomine the Canadian is often an American. I 

 have no doubt tluit that is so, and that in order to evade our law he 

 borrows the British flag to carry on his depredations more safely; but 

 it is not a question of nationality. 



The President. You mean in the Bering Sea'? 



Mr. CouDEKT. Yes, sir. 



The President. Not on the coast? 



Mr. Coudert. Ko, not on the coast: in the Bering Sea. We have 

 not yet undertaken to lU'cvent that; and we come to this court to pre- 

 vent it. 



Senator MoRCi^AN. But if the killing of seals on land is not the 

 destruction of property of the United States and the British subjects 

 have the riglit to go there without interruption, why may they not go 

 there to hunt and kill the seals on the land as well as they might hunt 

 and kill wild ducks? 



Mr. Coudert. Certainly they may, if we have no right to them. If I 

 have no right to my horse, my friend who has a pass to enter my prop- 

 erty may tliereby ride away on the horse, of course I cannot stop him. 



Senator Moroan. Then we could not possibly prevent a raid upon 

 our islands being made for the innocent purpose of killing the seals? 



Mr. Coudert. Certainly not; and if it is an innocent purpose unless 

 we put a Chinese wall over our territory we cannot prevent it. But if 

 they are our property, and if, as I insist most respectfully, the seal is 

 just as much my property as any animal however domestic, why, of 

 course, the moment they enter there with the animus fii rand i they are 

 robbers, and are open to tlie criminal law of the country. 



The President. You mean in this case civil property? The United 

 States owns the seals as civil property as individuals? 



Mr. Coudert. Yes sir. 



The President. That is why it is poaching? 



Mr. Coudert. The United States as a (i(»vernment owns this land 

 and it owns this industry. It has an unqualified title to it such as it 

 is. Eussia has transferred to us all the right it had. The United 

 States might have done one of two things. The United States might 

 have as a Government, as a corporation, if you please, undertaken to 

 raise seals. That subject was discussed — and Senator Morgan knows 

 it, for he was in the Senate of the United States at the time. Or a 

 corporation could be formed which would have the privilege of killing 

 a certain number, or an uncertain number — there was a maximum but 



