314 ORAL ARGUMENT OF FREDERICK R. COUDERT, ESQ. 



The President. — If we liear it at any time it will be sufiicient, of 

 course. 



Mr. CouDERT. — I think it is not an element in this case. I think the 

 other side will agree with nie that it is not an element in the case. 



The President. — The point is why it is not an element. 



Mr. Justice IIarlan. — It might become an element when we come to 

 Regulations, as to whether that mode of attacking tlse seals is to be 

 prohibited or not. 



Mr. CouDERT. — That is a question upon which I do not think any of 

 the counsel are in a position to help the Court. 



Mr. Justice Harlan. — My reading of the case is that it is admitted 

 on all sides that the taking- of seals by nets is injurious ; but what is that 

 mode, I have not gathered from the case. 



Lord Hannen. — Prima facie it would seem to me to |)resent one dif- 

 ficulty — the difficulty of discriminating- between nniles and females. 



Mr. CoUDERT. — I do not know, your Lordship, how it would discrim- 

 inate. All the seals would come into that net, if it was a good net. 



Lord Hannen. — We shall hear explanation of how the net is used 

 farther on. 



Mr. CouDERT. — That does not appear in the case. Nets are not used, 

 I think I may state that without contradiction. 



The President. — They might be. 



Mr. Justice Harlan. — IS'ets are not used? 



Mr. CouDERT. — No sir. Practically there is no such thing as taking 

 by nets. It does not exist. A little importance is given to it by the 

 British Commissioners in their report. While I regret, Mr. President, 

 that I am not able to give you information upon this 



The PRESiDENT.^Perhaps it will come in time. 



Mr. CouDERT. — I doubt it, Sir. I doubt it; because the sources of 

 information to which I have applied with some diligence are all in the 

 same papers that my learned friends must consult, and from which they 

 must also draw^ their knowledge; and 1 think I may say that nets have 

 never been a i)ractical factor in this seal fisliery; that there is an affi- 

 davit somewhere in the papers by which it appears that some man had 

 heard of the employment of nets in the Aleutian channels, or the Aleu- 

 tian Islands, by which a few pups were caught. I do not think there 

 is any evidence — I am subject to correction by my learned friend if I 

 am wrong — that seals were caught by nets. 



The President. — Those would be fixed nets on shore perhaps? 



Mr. CouDERT. — They would cover the mouth of a bay, and catch the 

 seals as they passed. 



The President. — Stretching from one shore to another? 



Mr. CouDERT. — From one shore to another. 



The President. — Not on the high seas. That would be impossible? 



Mr. CouDERT. — That would be impossible, of course. As I say, the 

 only importance attached to taking seals by nets is that the British 

 Commissioners recommend that it be interdicted. I do not think any- 

 one objects to the interdiction of nets. The Canadian sealers do not 

 use them, certainly. We do not use tlicm on the Islands; and I do not 

 know that any body ever has used them. I may say here, although 

 this is somewhat anticipating, that from the British Commissioners 

 reports, it api)ears that there are two methods of destruction that have 

 become obsolete, or have never been used. The ritle has become obso- 

 lete. The net has never, practically, been used. Those two methods 

 of destruction they recommend should be interdicted. Tlie shotgun 

 has displaced the ritle. The shotgun is t!ie most deadly weapon. This 



