ORAL ARGUMENT OF FREDERICK R. COUDERT, ESQ. 317 



Mr. CouDERT. — It woiikl be this. I suppose that in all these associa- 

 tions the great rule is equality — " liberty, equality and fraternity" ; and 

 they would not be equal if one had had five or six years' experience in 

 slauohteriug the seals and the other had had none. Therefore there is 

 liberty to go into the business, equality by not permitting the experi- 

 enced men to have an advantage, and brotherJtood of the trades asso- 

 ciation, which clasi)S them all in its arms, and gives them all an equal 

 chance. 



The President. — It seems to be international ; it provides for Ameri- 

 can ports as well as for Canadian ports. 



Mr. CouDEET. — Yes. Oh, we are brothers. There is only an imagi- 

 nary line between Sir John's country and mine, and we often forget it 

 in our affection for our neighbors. 



Senator Morgan. — Where is the head of this association at present? 



Mr. CouDERT. — In Victoria; and this is taken, as you will see, from 

 the British Blue Book. 



Sir Charles Russell. — I think it is non-existent now. 



Mr. Coudert. — I think I have failed to answer the question of the 

 learned President of the Tribunal as to nets; but I have given him in 

 return some information which I possess on the subject of ritles and 

 shot guns. 



The President. — I am sure we have found it very interesting. 



Mr. Coudert. — I stated to the learned Tribunal how some of these 

 seals were lost. I will give you some statistics upon that, with a belief 

 that the court is interested in knowing precisely the nature, the extent 

 and the destructive agency of this pelagic sealing. Upon this subject — 

 although it is branching off somewhat, it is also germane — I will read 

 from the Case, a few lines only, from page 194: 



Besides those lost by wonuding, in mauy cases, others killed outright are not 

 taken, because the specific gravity of the seal being greater than water it sinks 

 before it can be secured. In order to save as many of the sinking seals as is possible, 

 each boat carries a gaff, with a handle from four to six feet long, with which to 

 grapple the carcass, if the point whore it sank can be reached in time to do so. Of 

 course in securing a sinking seal much depends on the distance from which the seal 

 was shot, the condition of the water, whether rough or smooth, and whether or not 

 darkened by the blood of the animal, as also the skill of the hunter in marking with 

 his eye the place where the seal sauk. It can, therefore, be seen that the range of 

 possible and probable loss in case the seal is killed outright is certainly large, though 

 not so great as when the seal is wounded. 



As the Case will show, and the testimony upon it is very explicit, 

 the seals are lost when they are killed and they are lost when they are 

 wounded — not so many when they are killed, i)erhaps, because in many 

 instances a prompt boatman with a quick gaff' will spear the animal as 

 it is sinking and recover it; but that a great many are lost in that way 

 is very apparent, and also when they are wounded. 



How many are lost in consequence of wounds, no human being can 

 tell. We have some very interesting speculation upon that subject. 

 Some of the sealers express it as their opinion as experts that they do 

 not think a great many die by their wounds. How they arrive at this 

 o[)inion, how they can, without an examination, measure the gravity of 

 the wounds and the likelihood that they will result in death, does not 

 appear in the case; but you will find a number of the witnesses who 

 state, — and so far as we know from hearing their depositions and with- 

 out seeing the men, they state with entire seriousness, and perhaps 

 with the intent to tell the truth — that they do not believe that these 

 seals die. The seals must indeed be tenacious of life if a great propor- 

 tion of them do not die. 



The Tribunal at this xioint adjourned until Thursday, May 4, 1893, at 

 11.30 a. m. 



