ORAL ARGUMENT OF FREDERICK R. COUDERT, ESQ. 337 



union of tliem; and all that tliey claim is that no constant separation 

 exists between the seals — not between the families. I do not think 

 that it will be argued by our learned friends differently from this. The 

 British Commissioners have given especial attention to the question, 

 and this is the result that they have reached; if their supplemental 

 report and defence of their own work is read, it will be found that they 

 did not go beyond that qualification of the general statement. 



Mr. Gram. — Yes, but this evidence is prepared posterior to the Brit- 

 ish Commissioners, of course, is it not — these instances which are 

 quoted here? 



Mr. CouDERT. — What the evidence may be that is subsequent to 

 that, it is very difficult to tell. I think that probably it is intended to 

 show by the dealers in skins that there is a contusion in the skins, 

 and I was coming to that very point. 



Mr. Justice Harlan. — But they mean more than that by their 

 evidence. 



Mr. Gram. — Yes, much more than that. 

 Mr. Justice Harlan. — They intend more than that. 

 The President. — I suppose we must wait until the gentlemen them- 

 selves tell us what they mean, and that will come in time. 



Mr. CouDERT. — They mean I think what I have stated, and also 

 what probably the learned Arbitrator suggests, and had in mind tliat 

 in crossing over the ocean seals have been found, they say, all over the 

 water. 

 Mr. Gram. — Yes. 



Mr. CouDERT. — I think that is what they mean. 

 Mr. Gram. — At any time — I think so. 



Mr. Justice Harlan.— On the page referred to the head line is, 

 '' statements particularly bearing on the intermingling of fur-seals in 

 all parts of the North Pacific". 



Mr. CouDERT. — What page is your Honor reading from"? 

 Mr. Justice Harlan. — Page 23 of the British Counter Case Appen- 

 dix, volume 2. The object of that proof, as Judge Gram suggests is 

 to maintain the proposition that seals intermingle at all times in all 

 parts of the Pacific. 



Mr. CouDERT. — Assuming that to be true, I would quote the words 

 of the President of the Tribunal, what do they mean by that? What 

 is meant by that? Is it meant that they intermingle simply by cross- 

 ing the same lines, or is it meant to intimate that the families become 

 united, and that there is an alliance between the two tribes, so that 

 one of the seals of the Pribilof Islands will have mixed blood of the 

 Commander and Pribilof Islands, and on the other side the Com- 

 mander Island seal will have Alaskan blood? 



The President. — I cannot ask you to explain what the other side 

 mean, and what they intend, but it is enough I think, (and it was impor- 

 tant) that one of the Arbitrators pointed out to yon, the fact which 

 lies in the papers before the Tribunal, and which we have to take into 

 consideration. 



Mr. CouDERT. — Yes, and I may say to the Arbitrator that I am 

 indebted to the Court whenever any enquiry is made, in the first place 

 because it shows I am honored with the attention of the Arbitrators; 

 and secondly, that I ought to understand my case sufficiently to be able 

 to answer a question satisfactorily. I say with regard to that, that if 

 it is intended to say that there is this casual intermingling — this cross- 

 ing of each others' lines, and a going- to and coming from the water ter- 

 B s, PT xu 22 



