346 ORAL ARGUMENT OF FREDERICK R. COUDERT, ESQ. 



This stateuient, I say, is subscribed to by 27 Loudon furriers, and 

 this is the comparison between tlie two classes of skins, in these 

 respective jurisdictions under the control of the Siime party. 



I now, with the permission of the Court, will say to my learned 

 friends on the other side, if they wish to follow me, I am reading from 

 the Argument of the United States on page 244. This is the testi- 

 mony of Mr. Alfred Fraser. It is taken from the United States second 

 volume, but it is quoted verbatim here, and my learned friends will 

 l)robably not care to examine tlie book. If they do, it is on pages 554 

 to 558. It is the testimony of Mr. Alfred Fraser who is a subject of 

 Her Britannic Majesty, and resides in the city of Brooklyn. 



He is a man of very large experience. He was connected with this 

 business, and he says, which seems hardly credible, that many hundred 

 thousand skins passed physically through his hands, that is the skins, 

 he says, sold by O. M. Lamx^sou and Co, of which large firm he was a 

 member. He adds: 



Deponent is further of tlie opinion, from his long observation and handling of the 

 Bliins of the several catches, that the skins of the Alaska and Cop])er catches are 

 readily distinguishable from each other, and that the herds from which such skins 

 are obtained do not. in fact intermingle with each other because the skins classitied 

 under the head of Coi^per catch are not found among the consignments of skins 

 received from the Alaska catch and vice versa. 



It is hardly possible that this man who had "hundreds of thousands 

 of skins" going through his hands would have permitted such a phe- 

 nomenon to escape his attention as that which indicated a commixture 

 of the herds. 



Deponent further says that the distinction between the skins of the several 

 catches is so marked that in his judgment he would, for instance have had no diffi- 

 culty, had there been included among 100,000 skins in the Alaska catch 1,000 skins 

 of the Copper catch, in distinguishing the 1,000 Copper skins and separating them 

 from the 99,000 Alaska skins, or that any other person with equal or less experience 

 in the handling of skins, would be equally able to distinguish them. 



And in the same way deponent thinks, from his own personal experience in han- 

 dling skins that he would have no difficulty whatever in separating the skins of the 

 Northwest catch from the skins of the Alaska catch. 



This is one of the questions that was suggested a moment ago by one 

 of the learned Arbitrators. I would therefore call attention especially 

 to this: 



He would have no difficulty whatever in sciiarating the skins of the North West 

 catch from the skins of the Alaska catch. 



Lord Hannen. — Will you allow me to put a question to you? 



Mr. CouDERT. — I wisli you would. 



Lord Hannen. — I observe that Eevillion Freres say that they never 

 buy or sell by sex. It is never mentioned in any sale catalogue. " We 

 buy lots which are made up according to sizes," etc. Are there any 

 witnesvses to whom you can refer me, who appear to have had the duty 

 in the course of their business, I mean, of ascertaining to what sex the 

 skins belong? Of course we have a number of statements, varying 

 largely. Some of the statements go to as high as 90 per cent of females. 



Mr. CouDERT. — Yes, sir; even 95 per cent. 



Lord Hannen. — I want to know upon what basis that is determined. 



Mr. CouDERT. — There is abundant testimony, overwhelming testi- 

 mony. Now, if your Lordship asks me whether there is any witness 

 whose duty it is, in connection with the business, specially to declare 

 what the prof>ortion of the sexes is, I will not be able to name such a 

 a witness. 



Lord Hannen. — Or whose business it is to observe it — what man's 

 duty it is to observe whether a skin is a male or a female skin? 



