ORAL ARGUMENT OF FREDERICK R. COUDERT, ESQ. 347 



Mr. CouDERT. — In the first place, you will observe, when they come 

 from the Islands, they are all males; there are no female skins. 



Lord Hannen. — No; I am dealing with the other. 



Mr. CouDERT. — When they come from the other sonrces, they say 

 that they observe — natnrally, in taking- so important an article of com- 

 merce, and one of such value, they observe all its characteristics. 



Lord Hannen. — I wanted you to distinguish, if you can, between 

 Kevillon freres, who say that they. . . 



Mr. CorDERT. — They do not buy by sex. The female skin is always 

 a good skin of itself, and there is no distinction when skins are sold and 

 bought. If a merchant goes to buy skins, he does not ask for female 

 skins or for male skins; but these witnesses all say that when they 

 examine the skins, the evidence of the sex is such that they determine 

 it at once; and when it comes to the pelagic question. . . 



The President. — No, they do not all say that. That depends on the 

 stage of the process. When the skins are salted and prepared, they 

 cannot distinguish the sex. Some of them have said that. I think 

 Eevillon has said that. 



Senator Morgan. — Mr. Coudert, do I understand you to say that 

 there is any testimony in this Case to the eiiect that after a skin has 

 been salted and prepared for market, there is no further opportunity for 

 distinguishing the sex? 



Mr. OouDERT. — Oh no, Sir. On the contrary, it can always be dis- 

 tinguished. 



Senator Morgan. — I understood the learned President to say that 

 was his understanding. 



The President. — Yes, I distinctly understand that. I think the 

 British Commissioners admit that, and state it. 



Lord Hannen. — The point of my question is this: I wanted to see 

 whether at any stage of the i^rocess, from killing to selling in the mar- 

 ket, any man's attention is necessarily drawn to the question of sex. 



Mr. Coudert. — Let me read, directly in answer to Lord Hannen's 

 question, from volume 2 of the Appendix to Her Majesty's Counter- 

 Case, page 232. This is one of their witnesses ; and let me observe that 

 this is to meet our testimony, that the female catch represented 90 or 

 95 per cent. One witness, Grebnitzky, I think, says it is 95 per cent; 

 but in order to meet this — and this will be an answer to the Arbitra- 

 tor's question — our friends on the other side produced witnesses to 

 minimize the proportion; and Mr. Moxon, of the firm of Culverwell, 

 Brooks and Company, is called and sworn, and he says in answer to one 

 of these questions: 



Q. Have you, with the view to informing yourself on the question, lately exam- 

 ined any consignments of north-west seal skins? — A. Yes, last week. 



This is in answer to Lord Hannen's question. 



I went carefully through a parcel of 2,000, and came to the conclusion that the 

 percentage of females did not exceed 75 per cent at the most. 



Now, here is a man; an expert — 



Sir Charles Eussell. — Will you kindly read the question imme- 

 diately before that. 

 Mr. Coudert. — Yes sir: 



Q. Have you ever had to consider the proportion of females in the north-west, 

 catch? — A. Not until this question arose, because prior to that no distinction was 

 ever made, either in buying skins or in selling them. They are simply sorted in 

 quality and size, and not for the question of sex. 



