ORAL ARGUMENT OF FREDERICK R. COUDERT, ESQ. 375 



increasing. Whether that was the only source of the decrease or not 

 remains to be ascertained. 



Senator Morgan. — Mr. Ooudert, have yon any figures to shew what 

 was the number of vessels that were engaged in pelagic sealing in 1891 

 and 1892? 



Mr. CouDERT. — Yes ; I intend to produce them, and to give the 

 names of the vessels and the numbers, and to shew the enormous increase 

 of this business. 



Senator Morgan.— In 1891 and 1892? 



Mr. (JouBERT.— Up to 1891, and even 1892. 



Mr. Justice Harlan. — On page 207 of the British Commissioners 

 Report there is a Table for 1891, and previous years, which sbows that 

 in 1801 there were 50 Canadian, and 42 American vessels, the approxi- 

 mate catch for this year being 08,000. 



Mr. CouDERT. — Yes, if Mr. Justice Harlan will pardon me I will come 

 to that and give those figures with such amendments as we think we 

 may properly introduce. 



Senator Morgan. — Tlie point I am on is whether the modus vivendi 

 which has been adopted twice, had any elfect to stop pelagic sealing 

 outside the Behring Sea? 



Mr. CouDERT. — 1^0 it naturally would not. 



Sir Charles Eussell. — It liad no operation outside there. 



Senator Morgan. — For that reason? 



Mr. CouDERT. — If it was in operation it would have that effect, and 

 not being in operation it wouhl not have that effect, 



Senator Morgan. — I understand Mr. Coudert that there has been an 

 actual increase in the tonnage or the number of vessels engaged in 

 pelagic sealing since the first Modus vivendi was adopted. 



Mr. Coudert. — Yes ; it was a stimulation to killing seals in the I^orth 

 Pacific the moment they could not kill them in the Behring sea. 



The President. — Have you statistics about what went on during 

 the time the Modus vivendi has ai>plied'? 



Mr, Coudert. — We can produce them. 



The President. — It will be as w^ell that we have statistics also, if 

 you have them, of what goes on on the islands — I do not say in point of 

 killing seals, but in point of observation as to the number of seals. 



Mr. Coudert. — Yes we will give statistics on that point. As I said 

 before, it would be very misleading for me to go into and give an 

 account of isolated years. 



The President. — Take it in the proper time. 



Mr. Coudert. — Yes, we will produce what evidence there is on that 

 subject. What I have tried to establish before the Court is this — that 

 pelagic sealing developed with great rapidity at a certain time; that 

 after it had reached a real and serious degree of destruction a decrease in 

 the seals was observed; that that decrease continued in a direct ratio 

 to the number of seals killed at sea. So far those propositions are 

 established, I think I may say, and the burden will be on the other 

 side to show other reasons. This killing was cumulative. It was 

 increasing in its effect whenever they killed females as well. Take the 

 effect of killing 5,000 bearing mothers — if you please only 5,000 — in 

 1880. Well, it is shown that these females will bear 12 or 13, or possi- 

 bly more, offspring. Now calculate the enormous destruction, and how 

 it would be felt after three or five years ; it is enormous — it is almost 

 incalculable; and I need not argue that even, if it is kept up on a small 

 scale, it is slow destruction, because it diminishes, as Mr, Carter says, 

 the birth rate, Nothing can be fatal to the herd that does not dimin- 



