418 ORAL ARGUxMENT OF FREDERICK R. COUDERT, ESQ. 



James Hayward of Victoria, a sealer has liad large exi)erieiiee. Was 

 out iu 1887, 1888, 1890. He says: 



I do not tbiuk we got over one halt" that we killed and wouuded. Have seen six 

 ont of seven killed sink and were lost before wo could get to tliera. This happened 

 last year in a boat I was in. I think the seals are not near as plenty as a few years 

 ago, and they are much more shy and harder to catch now than they were when I 

 first went out sealing. I think this is caused by hunting them so much with guns. 



J. Johnson of Victoria. He was out six years of his life sealing-. 

 He says: 



About 40 per cent shot with a shot gun .ire lost. When a rille is used a larger per 

 cent is lost. 



Morris Moss, Furrier, and Vice-President of tlie Sealers Association 

 of Victoria, says — this is an opinion, and will go for what it is worth. 

 He says : 



I cannot say how many seals are killed and wounded but there is no doubt that 

 green hunters lose many while those more experienced in the business lose fewer. 



There is no doubt about that, aiul it is conceded by the British Ooni- 

 missioners. 



YvHiat Mr. McManus says I have already read. Ho is the journalist 

 whose diary 1 have already given to the Court. 



Mr. King Hall, who is a subject of Her Majesty, a correspondent of 

 the New York Herald, was ou the Otto at the same time. He says: 



I am couvinced that at the very least our hunters lose 50 per cent of the seals they 

 hit. and probably the majority of those hit ultimately die. 



Mr. Daniel McLean whom I have cited before, and who is spoken of 

 as a successful sealer by the Canadian inspector of fisheries is quoted. 

 He is asked the question : 



According to your experience what percentage of animals that are shot at, are 

 actually taken by the boats? A. That is according to the amount of anmiunitiou we 

 use. About one third are taken. 



Charles Peterson says he went out sealing 1886, 1887, 1889, 1890 and 1891. Seals 

 were caught by them (Indians) with spears and but few were lost ; but since the shot 

 gun has come into use a great many are destroyed and lost. 



Henry Moxon of London, Furrier, gives his opinion from common 

 report : 



Have you not heai'd it alleged that pelagic sealing is a wasteful method because 

 of the number of seals that are wounded and sink before they can be picked up? — 

 A. I have hoard that reported, but the result of my conversation with a large num- 

 ber of old sealers and experienced men in Victoria is quite contrary, and I am con- 

 vinced that not more than one in seven is lost. Certainly a skilled hunter would 

 not lose more. 



This is the testimony of our friends on the other side, given by a 

 gentleman who evidently meant to aid in minimizing the loss. He is 

 convinced — that is as far, evidently as he can go — that not more than 

 one iu seven is lost. 



Michael White of San Francisco, a sealing captain, says that not 

 more than one out of three is secured. 



It makes no difference whether that is actually correct. It may be 

 five per cent or ten per cent. All we mean by this is, that superadded 

 to the enormous loss by the killing of the males is the loss by killing 

 and losing these fenmles. We have the testimony of over 200 witnesses 

 on this and the high court will find further testimony, if it is required, 

 at pages 409 to 510 of the Appendix to the Argument. 



One single word more as to the management. The British Govern- 

 ment have endeavored to show that too many male seals have been 

 killed on the L'ribilof Islands beginidng with the year 1870, and that a 



