FUR-SEAL HEED OF ALASKA. 77 



Mr. Lembkey. Our purijose in weighing the skins on the island is to get them within 

 the weights prescribed by the regulations. Our regulations prescribe maximum and 

 minimum weights. These weights are 5 pounds 



Mr. Young. Does that relate to the question of age? 



Mr. Lembkey. Five pounds and eight and one-half pounds. 



Mr. Young. Passing from the weight, in London what is the determining purpose 

 in measuring? 



Mr. Lembke^. They measure them, I fancy 



Mr. Young. Are they trying to arrive at the cjuestion of age, too? 



Mr. Lembkey. They are trying to get the size of the skin or the amount of fur on 

 the animal. 



Mr. Young. They care nothing about the question of age there? 



Mr. Lembkey. Nothing at all. 



Mr. Young. That is all I care to ask. (Hearing No. 9, pp. 448, 449.) 



4f- ****** * 



Mr. Bowers. Mr. Lembkey is not a member of the advisory board, but is a member 

 of the fur-seal board. 



Mr. Elliott. We want that distinctly understood. We want to find out where he 

 comes in, and where to put the responsibility. Is not Mr. Lembkey responsible for 

 anything? Did he not get his orders from you? 



Mr. Bowers. He did, under those instructions. 



Mr. Elliott. Does he not get his orders from that advisory board, through you? 

 (Hearing No. 2, pp. 116-117.) 



Mr. Bowers. He gets his orders from me as approved by the Secretary. 



Mr. Elliott. And he is bound by them? 



Mr. Bowers. He is. 



Mr. Elliott. Then, Mr. Chairman, I want Mr. Bowers to explain right here why 

 Mr. Lembkey, introduced by Secretary Nagel, said on February 4 last, at a hearing of 

 the conservation committee of the United States, on page 10, in answer to this question: 



"The Chairman. How many did you kill last year? 



"Mr. Lembkey. W^e killed 12,920. 



"Q. What was the youngest seal you killed; what age?" 



Mr. Bowers. Where is that? 



Mr. Elliott. I hope you will get that. I want Mr. Bowers to get these questions, 

 Nothing would please me less than to appear as a prosecuter here, because I am not, 

 I want to get at the facts. On page 10 the chairman of this Senate committee asked 

 certain questions of Mr. Lembkey. Mr. Lembkey is introduced to that committee by 

 Secretary Nagel as the responsible agent of the Department of Commerce and Labor 

 to speak for him; and for you, of course. 



"The Chairman. How many did you kill last year? 



"Mr. Lembkey. We killed 12,920. 



"Q. What was the youngest seal you killed; what age? 



"A. Two years old." 



There we have the official statement of the Department of Commerce and Labor, 

 without doubt or equivocation, without any question of law or anything, given to the 

 Senate committee, that they had killed none of those seals, 12,920, under 2 years of age, 

 Are you ready to certify to that statement here before this committee? 



Mr. Bowers. That is Mr. Lembkey's statement. 



Mr. Elliott. No; but, my clear sir, he is your agent. I want you to certify to it, 



Mr. Cable. Do you want him to certify to it, or are you asking whether he does? 



Mr. Elliott. Excuse me if I am arguing, but I want to get at the responsibility for 

 this statement. If Mr. Lembkey is irresponsible, why was he brought up there? If 

 he is responsible, why are you evading the responsibility? 



Mr. Bowers. I am not evading anything; I want that distinctly understood. 



Mr. Elliott. Then you certify to that statement? 



Mr. Bowers. I do not have to certify to any statement made by another man, 

 That is his statement. That is the statement as it comes to the Bureau of Fisheries 

 from the officials. That is an official record as it comes to me. 



We now come into the immediate relation of the United States 

 Bureau of Fisheries to this fur-seal business of the Government. 

 Wlien Dr. Jordan and his associated scientists, Stejneger, Lucas, and 

 Townsend finished their work of completely approving the most 

 rigorous and injurious driving and close killing of the seals by the 

 lessees, they then published, in 1898, this approval in their final report 

 on fur-seal ^investigations ; the lessees tlien determined to have a 



