FUK-SEAL HEED OF ALASKA, 135 



Townsencl admits his hand in the fraud (Hearing No. 12, pp. 734, 

 755, May 24, 1912, H. Com. Exp. Dept. C. and L.): 



Committee on Expenditures in the 

 Department of Commerce and Labor, 



House of Representatives, 



Friday, May 24, 1912. 

 The committee this day met, Hon. John H. Rothermel (chairman) presiding, 



statement of dr. CHARLES H. TOWNSEND, OF NEW YORK. 



The witness was duly sworn by the chairman. 



The Chairman. What is your full name? 



Dr. TowNSEND. Charles Haskins Townsend. 



The Chairman. WTiere do you live? 



Dr. Townsend. I live in New York. I have lived there for some time. I am 

 from Pennsylvania, where my family is living. 



The Chairman. What is your business? 



Dr. Townsend. I have charge of the aquarium in New York; I am the director. 



The Chairman. How long have you held that position? 



Dr. Townsend. Since 1902. 



The Chairman. Are you a member of the advisory board on the fur seals? 



Dr. Townsend. I believe I have that privilege. 



The Chairman. What was the dispute which was settled by The Hague tribunal? 



Dr. Townsend. The matter pending there was whether the United States was 

 entitled to damages for sealing vessels seized by Russia. 



The Chairman. Was the James Hamilton Lewis one of them? 



Dr. Townsend. That was one of the vessels seized, I am pretty sure. 



The Chairman. \\'ho represented the Government before this tribunal? 



Dr. Townsend. The Assistant Secretary of State. 



The Chairman. Who was he? 



Dr. Townsend. Mr. Peirce. 



The Chairman. Were you there also? 



Dr. Townsend. Yes, sir. 



The Chairman. In what capacity were you there? 



Dr. Townsend. Mr. Peirce took me along as a sealing expert. 



The Chairman. To assist him in what he was doing? 



Dr. Townsend. Yes, sir; to assist in handling the case over there. 



The Chairman. Did you know at the time that they were the owners of these 

 vessels in which this pirate turned >ip? 



Dr. Townsend. No; 1 never knew anything about that until those things were 

 brought out at The Hague. 



The Chairman. It was developed at The Hague that the Liebes were the owners 

 of this vessel? 



Dr. Townsend. That is my recollection. 



The Chairman. And I suppose that is in the public records? 



Dr. Townsend. Everything, sir, that is connected with the matter must be between 

 the covers of that book and be between the covers of some other public document 

 in which the matter was brought up a year or so later on, perhaps by Mr. Elliott. But 

 it is all published. 



Ml. Elliott. When this was brought out at The Hague, what did you advise Mr. 

 Peirce to do, as his "expert pelagic sealing adviser"? 



Dr. Townsend. I do not know that Mr. Peirce evei asked mo for advice over there. 

 He instructed me to produce certain documents that would help him refute claims, 

 etc. I was a statistician. 



Mr. Elliott. Did you produce any documents that refuted Liebes's claim? 



Di. Townsend. 1 have no recollection in regard to it. Whatever was done is in 

 the book. 



