18 



rendered him, on August 15, a notice that his field had been reclas- 

 sified into a converted wetland. 



Now this is the wettest summer in 500 years to come to eastern 

 North Dakota. Eastern North Dakota used to be at the bottom of 

 a lake. Lake Agassiz, so all of the soil meets the hydrological condi- 

 tions requisite for the determination of wetlands. To do delinea- 

 tions at this time is neither fair, efficient, timely, or responsible. 

 And it has left one whale of a public relations problem for this pro- 

 gram in my State, let alone the very more immediate administra- 

 tive problems for those trying to deal with it. How would you re- 

 spond to that concern? 



Mr. Hebert. First of all, Mr. Pomeroy, we would need to consult 

 with the people at the local level just to make sure that we had 

 a complete sense of what had actually transpired in this process. 

 I will just say that in general, as the Soil Conservation Service 

 makes its wetland delineations, we do not take any 1 year's worth 

 of data and use that as the basis for making the determination. 

 The mapping conventions that we have worked out with the other 

 Federal agencies, and that will become part of the wetlands MOA, 

 require us to look at 3 to 5 years, sometimes even more, of weather 

 data, photographs of the locations so that you can keep track of 

 what is going on as far as the wetlands hydrology. Any one year 

 as an outlier would not determine whether or not a wetland would 

 be considered to be in place. That is the general policy. That is 

 what has been developed and that is what is supposed to be occur- 

 ring on the ground. 



With regard to the specific case, I can't say any more until we 

 get more facts. 



Mr, Pomeroy. Of course not. But I do want you to know that 

 redelineations this last summer were simply disastrous. They do 

 not appear to be a fair and evenhanded analysis of the condition. 



Mr. Hebert. The timing was not auspicious. 



Mr. Pomeroy. Yes. Following your testimony this morning. Dr. 

 Jay Leitch, the chair of the task force on wetland policy issues for 

 the Council of Agricultural Science and Technology, will be talking 

 about wetlands evaluation as something that is somewhat elusive 

 as a clear scientific determination and really is more a societal de- 

 termination, one that brings to it a number of competing values. 

 For example, the consideration of the recharging of ground water 

 capability of wetlands being a virtue. But if within an area there 

 is no demand for recharged ground water, why should that be the 

 highest virtue above all competing virtues? 



Do you acknowledge that in wetlands determinations there may 

 be room for competing considerations? 



Mr. Hebert. I would say that, first of all, we have to make sure 

 that we're following the best science available to make the delinea- 

 tion of the determination of whether or not a wetland is present. 

 But beyond that delineation, it truly is up to society to decide how 

 they want to address that wetland. Policies changed in 1985 with 

 regard to wetlands in agriculture. That was a change made by Con- 

 gress and supported by many in society. That is the prerogative of 

 this country to go ahead and decide how they will deal with situa- 

 tions such as that. 



