26 



the backbone of solving agricultural nonpoint source problems, we 

 will never be able to afford it. We also find these processes very 

 lengthy and they are adversarial. 



In 1992, we recommended an alternative compliance program 

 through a joint interim committee of the Texas Legislature. Those 

 recommendations were put into legislative form and the 73d legis- 

 lature passed that legislation, senate bill 503, unanimously. It sig- 

 nificantly changed in Texas the institutional setting in which we 

 would solve these problems. The new law established an agricul- 

 tural agency as the lead agency at the State level to deal with agri- 

 cultural nonpoint source pollution problems. The material we have 

 given your staff builds on those initial recommendations. 



The second thing we question is the adequacy of our science to 

 develop appropriate definitions of success. Our science is woefully 

 inadequate. We must have good definitions of success or else we 

 will not know when we are finished solving the problem. For the 

 first time in 25 years, those definitions of success are going to put 

 us in the stream and they will also put us in the stream during 

 wet weather events because that is when nonpoint source pollution 

 flows. In our estimation, we have a significant effort in our mind 

 ahead of us to establish good definitions of success. This doesn't 

 mean we don't do anjrthing in the interim, but we have to use some 

 interim definitions of success. 



We believe that our environmental programs will always be over- 

 ly protective. So our notion is that the better the science, the better 

 our policies and regulations will be. We think that it will probably 

 take a decade to develop these definitions of success and we think 

 it will require substantial investment. 



In conclusion, let me say that in our proposed process for dealing 

 with agricultural producers, we have combined voluntary and regu- 

 latory programs. When you do that, it is no longer strictly vol- 

 untary. But what our process does is to allow those individuals who 

 wish to come into compliance with national and State environ- 

 mental objectives, to do so outside of the traditional quasijudicial 

 administrative law processes which require consultants and attor- 

 neys. It lets them use the more traditional planning approaches 

 that USDA and their counterparts at the State level have employed 

 with farmers over the last 30 years. 



With that, I thank you very much. 



[The prepared statement of Mr. Jones appears at the conclusion 

 of the hearing.] 



Mr. Johnson. Thank you, Mr. Jones. 



Next, Dr. Nipp. 



STATEMENT OF TERRY L. NIPP, PROJECT DIRECTOR, WATER 

 QUALITY AND ENVIRONMENTAL POLICY, EXPERIMENT STA- 

 TION AND EXTENSION SERVICE COMMITTEES ON ORGANI- 

 ZATION AND POLICY, NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF STATE 

 UNIVERSITIES AND LAND-GRANT COLLEGES 



Mr. NiPP. Mr. Chairman, I would like to thank you for this op- 

 portunity to address the issue of nonpoint source pollution. I am 

 speaking on behalf of the committees on organization and policy of 

 the State agricultural experiment stations and the State extension 



