Do governments see this as a general priority? This is some fancy 

 concept for wealthy nations to be engaged in, but we are in a sur- 

 vival cattle and do not talk to us about long-term sustainable de- 

 velopment. Our children are dying. The other question is what hap- 

 pens to rural communities as we bring in food shipments to some 

 of these countries? Does that disrupt the local agricultural? 



Mr. Cobb. Let me take the first part of your question. We are 

 trying to make the link in dealing with governments. Specifically, 

 the link between environment and growth. The argument that we 

 are making is that the rural population, which constitutes the vast 

 majority of people in Africa, are not going to have any change in 

 its welfare and income without some attention to these issues of 

 agricultural sustainability and preserving the natural resource 

 base. 



There has been multinational, multidonor efforts directed at this 

 issue of trying to link development with natural resource and envi- 

 ronmental issues. And, in a number of countries, I think we are 

 succeeding in getting policymakers to focus on this. 



Mr. GEJDENSON. Can you get us a list of countries that you think 

 generally see this as an issue they care about and are willing to 

 make some commitment to, and countries that do not care? 



Mr. Cobb. Sure. 



Mr. Gejdenson. The last question I have, and then we are going 

 to recess until we get to the next panel: is there a relationship be- 

 tween the debt burden these countries face and their commitment 

 to environmental programs? Does that show up when they do not 

 have the resources, when they have too much foreign debt? 



Mr. Cobb. Yes, there is a relationship. A lot of these countries 

 are under extraordinary debt and have very limited revenues. 

 There is pressure across the board on their development programs. 

 And, it affects what they can do in the environment, what they can 

 do with population, what they can do with agricultural develop- 

 ment. 



Mr. Gejdenson. And what portion of our assistance to Africa 

 goes to population programs and to environmental programs? 



Mr. Cobb. Well, we are putting up 10 percent of the Develop- 

 ment Fund for Africa roughly into population and another 10 per- 

 cent into the environment. 



Mr. Gejdenson. Twenty percent go into those two categories? 



Mr. Cobb. Yes, that is right. 



Mr. Gejdenson. What does the bulk of the other money go to? 



Mr. Cobb. Other areas in which we work include agriculture, 

 health and child survival, and basic education. But, a substantial 

 portion is going into population and environment natural resources. 

 We can give you a breakdown if you are interested. 



[The material has been sumitted for the record.] 



Mr. Gejdenson. OK. I would like to see that. I want to thank 

 both of you. We will submit to you some additional questions for 

 the record. The committee will stand in recess for approximately 10 

 minutes. 



(Recess. 1 



Mr. Gejdenson. On the next panel, we have Henri Nsanjama of 

 the World Wildlife Federation, Tiane McMeekin of the African 

 Wildlife Foundation and Amy Vedder of the Wildlife Conservation 



