208 



Mr. LORENZINI. No, we might be talking about specific programs 

 and specific areas that are not really aimed at protecting fish that 

 have been declared to be endangered, but have other purposes. And 

 as I say, we can provide some specifics on that. 



Mr. LaRocco. Okay, that might be helpful. 



Mr. Reiten, I have not read every word of everybody's testimony 

 because it was so complete and the constraints of time, but you 

 touched on something that I am interested in. You said on page 6 

 of your testimony — and I realize this is couched in sort of a ques- 

 tion — "[I]t may also be advantageous to the region to allow BPA to 

 swap old U.S. Treasury debt with private financing." It is part of 

 the discussion that is going on with regard to reinventing govern- 

 ment and the national performance review. I believe Senator Hat- 

 held got the ball rolling here, but as an old stockbroker and some- 

 body who has dealt with municipal markets and so forth, I am kind 

 of interested in this. I think the test has to be that there is no in- 

 crease to the ratepayers, you know, for this to work. There is a tre- 

 mendous value to the country and the region with low interest 

 rates and some price stability, low inflation and so forth. I do not 

 know if anybody else mentioned it, but jump in if you want to. But 

 Mr. Reiten, you caught my attention. 



Mr. Reiten. You just commented on the point — interest rates are 

 such today that if you are going to place any long-term financing, 

 this is the time to do it. 



Mr. LaRocco. Yes. 



Mr. Reiten. If the federal debt of Bonneville is a problem for the 

 Clinton Administration or the Congress, there will never be a bet- 

 ter time to replace Treasury debt with the market rates that are 

 in place now. The competitive impact on Bonneville of the change 

 between the current repayment program and what that might be, 

 I am not aware of what the numbers are there, but to the degree 

 that that is either desired by Bonneville's management and by 

 Congress or the U.S. Department of Energy, there most likely will 

 never be a better time to do that than today. 



Mr. LaRocco. Yes, if we are going to treat it like a business — 

 you would probably do it, you probably have. 



Mr. Reiten. We are doing it. 



Mr. LaRocco. Idaho Power is doing it. I looked at Boise Cas- 

 cade's 10-Q the other day. They are saving $5 million a quarter in 

 lower interest rates, and the refinancings that are going on are tre- 

 mendous in the savings. 



The amount of this, anybody, is what, about $3.6 billion? 



Mr. DeFazio. Well it depends upon whether you discount to 

 present value and whether you are looking at the new debt/old debt 

 total. 



Mr. Reiten. Six to eight is the total amount and the amount that 

 that would be on a present value basis is 



Mr. LaRocco. Well I think that this task force ought to start 

 looking into that, Mr. Chairman, too. I do not know when we can 

 do it, but I have a particular interest in it. I have even talked to 

 my staff, not the committee staff, about looking into it, because we 

 are going to be engaged in more spending cuts and as the NPR 

 stuff comes before the Congress and we look at ways that we can 

 do this through the Executive Branch rather than through Con- 



