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if a public utility wants to acquire their own resource, they have 

 a common carrier path opened up to them on the transmission sys- 

 tem at a fair and equitable rate, and resource integration services 

 provided by Bonneville at a reasonable price, so they can bring in 

 their own resources. I want to see a competitive market out there 

 in the new resource marketplace, and I think the current situation 

 gets in the way of that happening. I mean, I see it every day. 



Mr. DeFazio. Well what about BPA's social obligations, fixed 

 costs and its base system? If we totally open up the transmission 

 system and BPA cannot even transmit its base load or meet its 

 mandates for preferred customers, it seems to me there have got 

 to be some limits on this free market. 



Mr. Carr. I think what I am arguing is that you lock in the vin- 

 tage, whatever you want to call it, the resources, the federal based 

 system resources with all the costs associated with them, along 

 with the transmission access, so that 



Mr. DeFazio. That would have access. 



Mr. Carr. That access would actually come with the allocation 

 of the vintage system, or the tier 1. No, that is not going to get 

 bumped; the public utilities would have transmission capability 

 getting their existing resources that they purchased from Bonne- 

 ville into their load. I am a lot more concerned about the new re- 

 source market and that is what I am focusing on. 



Mr. DeFazio. So you are talking about the increment. 



Mr. Carr. The increment and remember that Bonneville has 

 about 80-90 percent of the high voltage transmission system, but 

 they only have about 45 percent of the generation resources. 



Mr. DeFazio. Mr. Shields. 



Mr. Shields. Yes, Mr. Chairman. There is a piece of the whole 

 DSI issue that troubles me and it goes to what the thrust of many 

 of my comments was, and that is this administrative lock that was 

 put on the debate. An administrative decision was brought forward 

 and it literally precluded any debate of the value of reserve, of the 

 cost of the DSIs in the 1993 rate case. And I think that goes to 

 really the heart of the matter — Bonneville has to create opportuni- 

 ties for itself to deal with changing times. When it comes up with 

 administrative locks so you cannot debate these issues, I am 

 pleased to hear Mr. Carr say he is willing to debate the issue. We 

 should have done that two, three, four months ago during the most 

 recent rate case. We were not able to do that and I would hope 

 that 



Mr. DeFazio. But do they not have contracts until 1996? 



Mr. Shields. Yes. 



Mr. DeFazio. Well then what difference would it have made in 

 the rate case this time? 



Mr. Shields. Well if we did not have this lock, if we were able 

 to debate it, maybe we could have come up with some of the ideas 

 that Mr. Carr is putting forth here. I guess what concerns me is 

 if we have not had the opportunity to debate the issue, we are 

 going to defer it until 1996 or later. 



Mr. DeFazio. Okay. 



Mr. Carr. I guess just an observation, I do not think it is getting 

 punted to 1996. 



Mr. DeFazio. Do not think what? 



