22 



But, as I said, the remaining buildings, tlie facilities assessments are ongo- 

 ing right now. 



Senator Sarbanes. At Beltsville, you have this plan. You have it se- 

 quenced, do you not? 



Dr. Murrell. Yes. We know exactly what projects we would undertake in 

 any given year through the year 2000, either infrastructure or building. 



Senator Sarbanes. Mr. Wells, do you have any observations about this 

 process and so forth? 



Mr. Wells. In terms of the master planning, we agree that we saw a fairly 

 detailed master plan. NASA was somewhat outfront in terms of doing their 

 master plan earlier. At each of the agencies represented here at the table, we 

 were encouraged to see the emphasis that has been placed in the most recent 

 years to improve their maintenance and repair scheduling. 



So we think they certainly made some major strides and steps in the right 

 direction in order to know where to put the funding. 



Senator Sarbanes. So, in effect, I take it you would view it very important 

 to have a rational plan or arrangement for how you're going to do this. 



Mr. Wells. Most definitely. 



Senator Sarbanes. So that the funds don't come hit or miss, and then 

 they're used hit or miss, so to speak. 



So, even if they don't yet have the funds, they really ought to be geared up 

 to receive them, if in fact they come. Would that be correct? 



Mr. Wells. That's correct. 



Senator Sarbanes. And is there a great variance in the agencies you sur- 

 veyed as to how far along they are on that curve? 



Mr. Wells. Well, I would have to say that NASA was outfront, because 

 they probably started a little earlier, as early as maybe five or six years ago. 

 They also had the benefit of an earlier GAO report that was somewhat criti- 

 cal, and they've taken major strides in doing some recommendations. 



But, yes, we saw evidence that ARS and NIH are beginning to move out 

 and do the kind of master planning that we think is needed. 



Senator Sarbanes. I am concerned by these reports that a lot of the work 

 ends up being useless because the conditions vitiate the experiments and so 

 forth. How much of that did you encounter? 



Mr. Wells. Going back to one of your earlier questions. As our auditors 

 approached and visited the facilities and talked to the scientists in the labora- 

 tories, quite frankly, they were impressed with the spirit, enthusiasm and pro- 

 fessionalism that these scientists were bringing to the table through these 

 various measures to work under these condition in order to ensure that they 

 were getting quality research. 



Senator Sarbanes. Are there organizational or administrative factors that 

 have led to these infrastructure problems at the labs, in your view? 



Mr. Wells. As you know, when agencies go through their budget process, 

 you have facility managers, people that are in charge of doing maintenance 

 and repair requests, and then you have the scientists that are sitting there try- 

 ing to do effective, efficient and important scientific work. 



So there is always a struggle in terms of diverting R6cD money into the 

 maintenance field. 



