23 



Mr. Allard. I think barter may be something we could look at. 

 You know, Australia, Canada, France are all looking at that as an 

 alternative. I don't think we've looked at that seriously enough. 



Mr. Glickman. Sure. 



Mr. Allard. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. 



Mr. Penny. Mr. Pomeroy. 



Mr. Pomeroy. Congressman Glickman, first let me commend you 

 for advancing a very interesting idea. I think it's one that this 

 country ought to pursue. 



Do you have any sense of domestic Russian response to the types 

 of linkages you're proposing? I think the IMF conditions have gen- 

 erally been viewed as so stringent as to be unrealistic. I'm wonder- 

 ing if a less stringent set of conditions ultimately could produce 

 some backlash for foreign meddling with their domestic concerns, 

 but I really don't have any notion in terms of how that's playing 

 over there. 



Mr. Glickman. My judgment is that, yes, we could create an 

 anti-Western backlash by micromanaging their world, as imperfect 

 as theirs is. Perhaps the simplest thing to do would be to maybe 

 tie mere compliance by all the Republics with existing agreements 

 and establish some sort of a timetable of existing agreements so 

 they wouldn't think that some excessive interference is being foist- 

 ed upon them, and then, through a carrot approach, maybe say, 

 just hypothetically, "If you accelerate that, we're going to reward 

 you." 



I think that there's a problem in us becoming too interfering, and 

 you already see that with Vice President Rutzkoi, who is a very 

 popular politician in Russia, equally popular with President 

 Yeltsin, who has taken a very public position about the West dic- 

 tating terms to the great motherland Russia, which is a potential 

 problem for us. 



Mr. Pomeroy. I think that is a big potential that needs to be 

 pursued, particularly relative to compliance with agreements 

 they've already entered or other steps which, frankly, might be 

 helpful to them. It will be, however, the nationalists for self-serving 

 political reasons that will try and stir this pot. 



Mr. Glickman. Absolutely. 



Mr. Pomeroy. I hope that your proposal helps us frame debt re- 

 lief in its appropriate context, which is national defense. This isn't 

 foreign aid, this isn't international charity. This is national inter- 

 est, getting rid of nuclear weapons pointed at our country with a 

 delivery system capable of getting it here. If we want to use labels, 

 I mean, this truly would be a strategic defense initiative, not debt 

 forgiveness or foreign aid, and I hope in the process of your legisla- 

 tion we can begin making new associations through the strategic 

 use of, in particular, ag credit to advance important policy goals for 

 this country. 



Mr. Glickman. I think you've stated as I intended it. I just don't 

 state it as succinctly as you did. 



Mr. Pomeroy. You say it much better. But count me in. However 

 I can help you, please let me know. 



Mr. Penny. Thank you, Mr. Glickman. 



Mr, Glickman. Thank you very much. 



Mr. Penny. We appreciate your appearance this morning. 



