32 



Mr. Detrich. There are two levels we need to look at. First of 

 all, take of listed species it is prohibited with a permit from the 

 Fish and Wildlife Service. Thus, the first level of restriction is that 

 of take. 



However, particularly with the northern spotted owl, we have de- 

 veloped some plans where we authorize take and the harvest level 

 can increase. 



Mr. POMBO. At what level is this forest being harvested now? 

 The area that is included in this 



Mr. Detrich. The existing old growth? 



Mr. PoMBO. Yes. 



Mr. Detrich. Very little. 



Mr. POMBO. And what is the reason that very little is being har- 

 vested there now? 



Mr. Detrich. Most of it is involved in litigation. 



Mr. POMBO. So is it your opinion that this is in imminent danger 

 of being logged and that the habitat for the endangered species is 

 in imminent danger of being lost? 



Mr, Detrich. I don't know that I would say it is imminent, be- 

 cause the company will be working with us whether this bill pro- 

 ceeds or not. 



However, if the bill is not carried out, the Fish and Wildlife Serv- 

 ice will be working with the company on plans that will no doubt 

 result in some harvest to that area. 



Mr. PoMBO. But not harvested to the degree which would suffi- 

 ciently damage the habitat of the endangered species? 



Mr. Detrich. We anticipate probably some loss of habitat, yes. 



Mr. PoMBO. But not to the degree that it would be very harmful 

 to the endangered species, because that would be against the law? 



Mr. Detrich. That is right. We cannot authorize permits that 

 would result in a jeopardy to the species. 



Mr. POMBO. So at this point there is no real great need for going 

 in and acquiring the land, because the private company is working 

 with Fish and Wildlife? 



Mr. Detrich. I would say that the value to the species would be 

 greater if there were no harvest. 



Mr. Bishop. At this time, do you have a further question, Mr. 

 Hamburg? 



Mr. Hamburg. Mr. Chairman, I would just like to follow up on 

 the question from my colleague and ask Dr. Ralph, in your opinion, 

 can the marbled murrelet sustain the loss of further habitat and 

 maintain an5rthing like a high viability standard? 



Mr, Ralph. Right now in the State of California, as elsewhere in 

 its range, it is in a severe state of decline; and if we have a policy 

 objective to reverse this and lead toward the recovery of the spe- 

 cies, we have to manage large tracts of land in such a manner as 

 to enhance the species, and your proposal in your bill is such a pro- 

 posal for managing large tracts of land to allow for the recovery of 

 the species; rather than just maintaining it, or allowing it to de- 

 cline even further. 



It is in decline. It has a very low reproductive rate at the present 

 time. 



Mr. Hamburg. So the answer is no? 



Mr. Ralph. That is correct. 



