35 



to housing construction in a lot of cases, so it does go up and down. 

 Redwood has not had that kind of activity. 



Mr. Hamburg. Thank you. 



Mr. Chairman, I think my time has expired. 



Could I just ask one additional question of Dr. Ralph, Mr. Chair- 

 man? 



Dr. Ralph, I am going to take the liberty to ask one additional 

 question regarding the marbled murrelet. A lot is being made of 

 the cost of this proposal and translated into a cost per animal; and 

 you know, we are spending millions of dollars for every marbled 

 murrelet, and isn't that something we can't afford? Would you say 

 from your scientific point of view that there is more at stake here 

 in terms of threatened and endangered species than the murrelet 

 and that the murrelet is, like the northern spotted owl, a kind of 

 indicator species of the overall health of the ecosystem? 



Would you concur with that or not? 



Mr. RaLph. Yes, certainly the problems in the areas of northern 

 California, where we are — and other species and other members of 

 the complex ecosystem there are also involved — so putting it all on 

 the backs of the marbled murrelet is probably not entirely fair to 

 the murrelet. 



Mr. Hamburg. Thank you. 



Mr. Rose [resuming chair]. Does the gentleman seek recognition? 



Mr. DOOLITTLE. Yes, Mr. Chairman. 



Mr. Rose. The gentleman is recognized for 5 minutes. 



Mr. DOOLITTLE. Mr. Leonard, I understand that 193,000 acres, 

 comprising all of the acreage involved in this — ^which in total, is 

 about 4,486 or so, the core of it; but there is another 40,000 — this 

 193,000 acres in 1986 was purchased by the present owners for 

 $900 million. Is that your understanding? 



Mr. Leonard. I have no knowledge of what that price would be. 



Mr. DOOLITTLE. That is the figure that I have here, mentioned 

 in a newspaper editorial. The value, from your testimony yesterday 

 when I was in the hearing in the Natural Resources Subcommittee, 

 your appraiser indicated, as of January 1, this was valued at $499 

 million; and we heard testimony based on the 15-percent increase 

 in the value of redwood stumpage that would add approximately 

 another $75 million to the $499 million, for a total of $574 million 

 at this point. And that is for nearly 4,500 acres. 



Are you concerned at all about the tremendous disparity in 

 prices? It seems like the purchaser got a pretty good deal when 

 they bought it for $900 million; now they are going to make a fabu- 

 lous deal if the Government is going to buy back 4,500 areas of the 

 original 119,000 and pay over half what they paid for the whole 

 193,000 acres. Doesn't that seem intriguing? 



Mr. Leonard. Certainly there has been tremendous increase in 

 stumpage values. 



The other thing that needs to be voiced is, the bulk of the value 

 that is involved in these properties is in the standing timber, not 

 in the land itself 



Mr. DOOLITTLE. Right. 



Mr. Leonard. The bulk of the remaining old-growth timber in 

 the Pacific Lumber Company holding is within the 44,000 acres, 

 and the biggest tract, therefore — the most volume is in the 4,500 



