34 



a problem, but I do not — I really do not believe, Senator, that the 

 700 number is a good number in terms of the length of the net. 



Senator Stevens. We moved with just one driftnet vessel, the 

 Chinese vessel — -just one. I do not think we need 700 confirmed. All 

 we need is one. If we have one confirmed driftnet vessel that ex- 

 ceeds the allowable limit in use in the world under the morato- 

 rium, I think we ought to tell the U.N. we are prepared to help en- 

 force that moratorium. 



We sought the moratorium. It was our idea. It is one of the great 

 achievements of the U.N., as far as I am concerned. I am disturbed 

 that we are getting increasing reports of violations in other parts 

 of the world. If driftnets seep back into general usage, I think they 

 will come back into the Pacific and then into the North Pacific. 



I think we should move — I will personally take it up with the 

 U.N., with NATO people when we are there in September. I do 

 think that we have to get some enforcement mechanism in the 

 oceans of the world to ensure that those driftnets do not come back, 

 and I think we should be very, very tough about it, too. In days 

 gone by, we have towed them to the shore and sunk them, and I 

 am for some really tough enforcement of vessels that use driftnets. 



Senator KERRY. Let me say to you, I could not join more strongly 

 with my colleague. We joined together originally to try to ban 

 driftnets. This is what I am talking about. We have mouthed all 

 the words about the new paradigm and all the new tensions in this 

 postcold war world, but we do not seem to back it up with force. 



The fact is that if we are going to say this is the new area of 

 tension, this replaces arms control — and it really does — we are 

 going to need to do something about it. The fight now is not who 

 is aiming missiles at each other, it is who is stripping away limited 

 resources and behaving in a predatory fashion. If we are not will- 

 ing to be very tough in the enforcement of this, I absolutely guar- 

 antee you we are inviting people to simply chase the dollar, or the 

 franc, or the yen, or whatever, and that is what they are going to 

 do. 



The economics of this are very, very real, and unless people are 

 forced by some internationally sanctioned enforcement mechanism, 

 it is just not going to happen, because the economics are too strong. 

 There is too much money invested, too many mouths to feed, too 

 many parochial interests at stake. 



We saw that happen to our fish when they were landed in 

 France. We see it in these fleets that are fighting with each other. 

 We see it in our fishermen in Maine and Massachusetts, and we 

 are struggling with the Canadians over the question of the sense 

 of inequality in agreements that have been reached. I think it is 

 only going to get worse before it gets better, and we have to secure 

 an enforcement mechanism. 



Senator Stevens. I have one other question, Mr. Chairman, if I 

 may. 



I understand from your statement, Mr. Ambassador, that the ad- 

 ministration has changed its position and will support a binding 

 agreement in the U.N. Conference on Straddling Stocks and Highly 

 Migratory Species. While this may have some benefits in the past 

 we have been negotiating a nonbinding agreement. What bothers 

 me now is that if we had been negotiating a binding agreement all 



