57 



I only have one comment, and it might lead to a comment from 

 Ms. Speer, but I think one of the great problems we have right now 

 is to get the environmental groups and other groups who originally 

 sponsored the marine mammal moratorium, and then made that a 

 permanent prohibition against management of marine mammals, 

 to realize that part of the depletion of the world's fishing stocks we 

 are talking about is taking place because of the ever-increasing 

 numbers of some marine mammals. 



Our otters are all the way down to Mexico. People talk about the 

 beluga whale as being endangered; it is far from being endangered. 

 They look like whitecaps in the Cook inlet every year, there are so 

 many of them we cannot believe it. They are a tourist attraction 

 now because they come in such great numbers. 



I do believe that we should protect the marine mammals that are 

 endangered or threatened of being endangered, but we have an en- 

 tire prohibition. We are not even allowed to come near them, to dis- 

 turb them; that is a "taking" now under the new regulations, the 

 marine mammal concept. And we all know what happened down in 

 Seattle with that one sea lion that was threatening the Columbia 

 River salmon. 



I do think that what we need to do is to find some way to deal 

 with enforceable concepts of management, not only applied to man, 

 but applied to the predators of the sea. And I would be hopeful that 

 we would find some way to start talking about the size of gear. We 

 have, now, what is it, Dave, about 65 factory trawlers off our 

 shore? 



Mr. Benton. Yes. 



Senator Stevens. I am told, Mr. Chairman, that if the number 

 reaches 90, there will be no need for any other means of harvesting 

 fish in the Pacific as a whole. These are bottom-line fisheries. They 

 operate year round, they do not operate in just one fishery as the 

 tradition was in the past, they are operating in every fishery that 

 is available and in every country that is available. And I think that 

 before long we will have to classify them as being near to being as 

 dangerous to the fisheries of the world as driftnets were. 



And we have got to find some way to get a hold of the prolifera- 

 tion of fishing systems that really vacuum clean the oceans. And 

 I think that some of those systems are natural. Some of them are 

 marine mammals and some of them are man-made mammals that 

 we need to regulate or find some way to deal with. Now, I do not 

 know yet that we are going to get that kind of understanding. I 

 wish, Mr. Chairman, we could have some in-depth review of the 

 threats to the fisheries of the world, and see if we could not get 

 the State Department and other people to start talking about limi- 

 tations on gear as one of our main targets for the protection of our 

 fisheries. 



But, I am sorry, I do have to leave. I appreciate all of you being 

 here. 



Senator Kerry. Well, I associate myself with those comments. I 

 think that we are certainly part of that ecosystem, and there nust 

 be a balance and we are going to have to be very careful that we 

 do not upset it completely, without any recourse. 



Senator Stevens. Thank you very much. 



Senator Kerry. Thank you. 



