64 



and similarly you would focus in on the peculiarities of highly mi- 

 gratory species and what you need to do to manage them. 



That is not intended to negate the idea of compatibility between 

 inside and outside the zones and measures that are applied. I think 

 that those measures need to be fair, they need to be applied 

 throughout the range of the stocks. That is not a question in our 

 mind. 



Senator Kerry. Let me ask both you and Mr. Bumey if you 

 would quickly comment on the same question I asked Ms. Speer re- 

 garding overcapitalization. 



Mr. BuRNEY. That is a very difficult issue. I look at what the real 

 world offers, and in tuna today no one is building a new tuna ves- 

 sel. Today, to build a purse seine vessel is $15 to $18 million, at 

 a minimum. It is very difficult for anybody to rationalize that in- 

 vestment in this business today. 



However, there always appears to be additional vessels that 

 come out of mothballs whenever the price reaches a certain level. 

 That is just the history of this business. And I think Ambassador 

 Colson said it well, that we are dealing with a lot of countries 

 today that have entered this business that were not in the business 

 even 5 years ago, 3 years ago. 



Overcapitalization is always an issue. It is something that I 

 think has to be addressed and cannot just be ignored, and at the 

 same time it has to be a rational approach to overcapitalization. 

 That is the difficulty. As Mr. Benton just said, just as there is a 

 difference between a straddling stock and a highly migratory fish 

 stock there is also a difference between fisheries. In some fisheries, 

 overcapitalization is a very serious problem. In others, the cost of 

 entry is so high that overcapitalization has not been that big of a 

 factor. And I think that is true with tuna, to a certain extent. 



Senator Kerry. I appreciate all of your observations this morn- 

 ing. I think that I will also leave the record open with respect to 

 this panel so that we could submit either written or additional 

 questions. 



I appreciate your comments of support for the views I expressed 

 at the outset regarding the inadequacy of the current approach. 

 None of these comments, yours or mine, are guaranteed to produce 

 a solution automatically, but we clearly need to ratchet up the 

 stakes here, and I am going to do everything I can. Senator Ste- 

 vens and I have agreed to insert something into the defense bill 

 with respect to NATO obligations and fisheries enforcement. In ad- 

 dition, we have agreed to draft a letter to both the Secretary of 

 State as well as Italian authorities with respect to driflnet viola- 

 tions and try to heighten awareness on that. 



But I think we need to be much more intense about international 

 fish conservation and focus on it with a greater sense of urgency. 

 I look forward to working with you, particularly with the groups 

 here in Washington, to think about how we are going to do that. 

 We simply cannot continue down the same road. Obviously, the 

 price of fish is going to go up in the future because of increased 

 scarcity, which means it will be more economical for more of those 

 boats to try and catch this depleted prize. Then you all know what 

 is going to happen. Obviously, with that intensity of effort we are 

 going to diminish fishery resources even further. 



