34 



need to make some improvements. We are going to have to do a 

 better job of looking at what the tradeoffs are, how we can achieve 

 overall objectives both with respect to our trade objectives and our 

 own concerns about residues and this kind of thing domestically. 



I would say that I see some very positive potential in this as we 

 try to tackle this problem, because, again, I think one thing that 

 we have not done enough of is promote U.S. products, particularly 

 some of the fruits and vegetables that you are concerned about, as 

 basically safe products in countries that are increasingly concerned 

 themselves about the use of pesticides and this kind of thing. I 

 think we have the potential to make that a positive factor, whereas 

 too often today, it is a negative factor as you have pointed out. 



Mrs. Thurman. So when you have gone through, though, looking 

 at this whole new reorganization chart, can you give me specifically 

 what you have done so that you know that you will have that 

 input? 



Mr. GOLDTHWAIT. I can't tell you that today, off the top of my 

 head, but let me provide some information to your office on how we 

 currently envision accommodating this within the Department's re- 

 organization. 



Mrs. Thurman. Mr. Mendelowitz, can you give me some ideas of 

 things that we might be able to tell them today that they may be 

 able to accomplish this? 



And if you can't, we will talk later. 



Mr. Mendelowitz. I will be happy to try to draw up a more de- 

 tailed response, if you would like to talk about it later. But what 

 you have identified is a problem which exists across the Govem- 

 ment, when there are programs that have a narrow focus, but have 

 impacts that spill over into other areas. 



You can't fix those problems at the end of the process. The only 

 way to really address these problems in a sensible and minimally 

 disruptive way is to make sure that when the process starts, you 

 try to identify everyone who is going to be impacted, and an effort 

 has to be made from the very beginning to make sure that every- 

 one who is going to be affected is part of the process. Then, as the 

 process proceeds through the final stages, everyone who is going to 

 be impacted as a result of what happens is involved at every step 

 of the way. And that is absolutely critical. Because the truth is, 

 there is simply no way to avoid conflicts because we have programs 

 with goals that are in conflict. 



For example, I remember the classic story about the — I don't 

 know if it is apocryphal or not — about the APHIS inspector who 

 visited an abattoir and said the place was pretty good, except there 

 was still some potential for bacterial growth in the floor tiles. The 

 abattoir had to replace the nonslip floor tile with shiny ridge-free 

 tile so that bacteria couldn't develop. And then, after they made 

 the renovations, the OSHA inspector came in and said, well, the 

 place was pretty good, but there was a problem with the floor. 

 When the tile floor gets wet it is too slippery and a worker can slip 

 and fall and be injured, so the abattoir needed to put in nonslip 

 ridged floor tiles. 



I am not telling the story to poke fun at anyone, I am telling the 

 story to highlight the problems that arise when there are programs 

 with goals that are in conflict. The only way to make sure that we 



