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maze, this is not a bureaucracy, there is a source of help, there is 

 a potential for information. 



And if it is a chemical additive question, if it is a freight or ship- 

 ment question, if it is a who do you have overseas that you can 

 trust question, I think there has to be an additional reaching out 

 process, particularly to help those small- and medium-sized co- 

 operatives. We have tried to start that process through NCBA and 

 CBI as a catalyst and support organization for that. 



Mrs. Thurman. Wait a minute. Tell me what those acronyms 

 are. 



Mr. NOTAR. Pardon me. NCBA is the National Cooperative Busi- 

 ness Association, our membership association. And in the mid- 

 1980's, we put together a small trading arm called Cooperative 

 Business International, CBI, because we recognized that U.S. co- 

 operatives needed a way to access that information and to help 

 them with trade. And over time, and as I say, there has been some 

 stops and starts, it hasn't been an even process, but over time CBI 

 has been able to help those small- and medium-sized and now even 

 some of the larger cooperatives access information and access the 

 export market. 



I can only emphasize that it is that information and dialog and 

 having the FAS and USDA reach out to try to help those small- 

 and medium-sized businesses, whether it is through SBA, the Com- 

 merce Department, U.S. AID, or whatever, but somehow that infor- 

 mation has to be made available and be made more accessible so 

 that those small- and medium-sized cooperatives feel that they 

 have a chance to look overseas. 



Mrs. Thurman. Let me ask this question. Maybe you are familiar 

 with this, but in the aquaculture program that was done in Florida, 

 which has now become a big issue and a big industr>' for Florida, 

 we were finding that they were having problems in getting through 

 the system and getting started up and doing all of the kinds of 

 things they did environmentally and everything else because there 

 was a lack of coordination between the different agencies and de- 

 partments that would have some kind of permitting or regulation 

 or whatever. 



Would it be helpful if maybe that, say all of these different de- 

 partments and agencies that would be involved in the development 

 had like a coordinating council of those government entities that 

 would be involved in that opportunity for your small businesses? 



Mr. NOTAR. I guess my knee-jerk response would be probably 

 not. I think having the trade association, the membership associa- 

 tion, the State organization that might be able to help access that 

 one-stop shopping, I think would be probably more helpful than 

 necessarily having an overall council umbrella. 



I think that council would probably be best served within the 

 USDA itself as opposed to having that overall umbrella council try 

 access the SBA and Commerce and Trade and so forth. I think 

 somehow there has to be a funneling source, but my feeling is that 

 having another layer, having a council probably wouldn't be the 

 best way. 



Mrs. Thurman. Thank you. 



Mr. Krajeck, as you know the GSM programs are facing difficulty 

 because of defaults by some major borrowers. Has this resulted in 



