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Mr. Stupak. Thank you. I think your program is great. For ex- 

 ample, you just did one up in my district where you put up 

 $300,000, but the company had to put in $2 milHon. And this was 

 some wastewood products that we are doing up in Michigan — up in 

 Lake Linden — so that is a real good program. 



I had supported it, but my question is, those who are not success- 

 ful, even though they are putting money and things like this, I 

 don't want to say they are not successful. I don't want to say — ap- 

 plications who you cannot fund because of your limited resource. I 

 think your testimony said you are able to do about 10 percent. 



Mr. O'CONNELL. Right. 



Mr. Stupak. Do you have any methods or can you direct them 

 to other agencies within your Department or SBA to help them get 

 funding? 



Mr. O'CONNELL. We do and we just recently got a — there is a 

 Federal document that is out that covers everywhere you can get 

 money, and we are sending it back to them so that they know what 

 is available. SBA-Commerce Department has the advanced tech- 

 nologies program and so forth, but in this area of bridging the gap 

 between research results and commercialization, there is just a 

 hand full, really. 



SBA is really a research program for primarily smaller compa- 

 nies. Advanced technology programs in the Commerce Department 

 is primarily a program for industry in the urban community. AARC 

 looks at it from an agricultural standpoint, There are very few 

 other sources. 



Most States now have economic development programs — and 

 they are different sources. I believe in a State like Michigan, Iowa, 

 or Minnesota is different in that the program has been somewhat 

 unique. 



But the economic development programs in most States, each of 

 those are agricultural States, are not paying much attention to ag- 

 ricultural opportunities. They don't look at agriculture as a good in- 

 vestment so far as moving new products in the marketplace. That 

 is what I have observed in this area over 5, 6, 7 years. 



If you would have asked me if before I got involved in this area 

 that agriculture was a good investment, I would have said no. But 

 as you get involved in it and you look at the opportunities and you 

 look at the new technologies and the chemurgy movement and all 

 that sort of thing, there are opportunities out there now. 



You go to the bank with that idea from Michigan. From your 

 State, they would have said, hell, no. You need 10 years of record. 

 They won't even talk to you. All we are trying to do is get that 

 started with some seed money that when they need to expand, they 

 can go to the bank. That is all we are doing. 



All we are trying to do is get it started and I think — I would like 

 to see us help the other people out more than we have. But in all 

 honesty, there aren't too many sources. 



Mr. Stupak. The document you are putting together with other 

 sources, with other possible programs, would you make sure we get 

 a copy of that to our office? 



Mr. O'CONNELL. I am. 



Mr. Stupak. Thank you. Thank you for the help in northern 

 Michigan. 



