23 



Senator Dorgan. Because, ultimately, you are going to have to 

 meet a test of nondegradation, and I and some others are going to 

 make certain you meet that without question. And we do not want 

 scientific uncertainty to linger, and people to say to us, "Just trust 

 us, things will be just fine as soon as we get the bugs worked out 

 of this new system." 



So, Mr. Chairman, I will seek a separate meeting. Dr. Baker and 

 staff, I appreciate the opportunity to proceed further on this issue. 



Thank you. 



Senator Kerry. Thank you very much, Senator Dorgan. I could 

 not help but think as I heard your sizing of North Dakota — and I 

 say this with due respect to Senator Pell and Senator Biden — but 

 adding Rhode Island and Delaware does not do a lot to make it 

 seem big. [Laughter.] 



Senator Dorgan. But I might say for the chairman's edification, 

 North Dakota is the size of 10 Massachusetts. [Laughter.] 



Which puts it in somewhat greater perspective. 



Senator Kerry. No, it is as big as Connecticut or a little bigger 

 than Connecticut. We like that. 



Senator Stevens. And one-twentieth the size of Alaska. [Laugh- 

 ter.] 



Senator Kerry. And, by the way, the price of shrimp is increas- 

 ing up there. 



Senator Stevens. 



Senator Stevens. Well, thank you very much. I am sorry I could 

 not be here sooner. We had an OTA meeting that was very inter- 

 esting. I look forward to telling Members about that. 



Dr. Baker, I have a couple of questions, and I again want to say 

 how sorry I was I could not stay at the other hearing you were at 

 last week. These conflicts are getting too much for some of us. Let 

 me ask you just an old fisherman's question first: 



I understand you unveiled a hybrid pink-king Salmon recently, 

 or someone in your agency. And it has raised a lot of questions 

 from some of my friends up North. What is going to happen to the 

 wild fish stocks if that hybrid gets loose in the Pacific? And what 

 is it going to do to the size of the kings that we have in Alaska 

 and Washington and in British Colombia if there is interbreeding 

 as feared? And what is going to happen to their life cycle? Will we 

 still have 4-year kings? Or will they be 2V2-year kings because they 

 are one-half pink and one-half king? 



What is going to happen to our real joy of catching a real king, 

 those of us who are fishermen, and really chase them, as I am 

 going to do in July? 



I was reading about that and it just dumbfounded me, you know. 

 Are we serious about releasing a hybrid salmon in the Pacific? 



Dr. Baker. Let me ask the expert, Senator Stevens. 



Nancy, are you familiar with that? 



Senator Stevens. I probably should wait for the next panel, they 

 tell me, but I afraid that question might get away from me if I did 

 not ask it right off. 



Dr. Foster. Well, actually, this is the first I have heard of this 

 hybrid. Where did you read it? 



Senator Kerry. It is science fiction. [Laughter.] 



