22 



Senator Kerry. Well, that also disturbs me. So, if you are a 

 sports fisherman with a huge craft zonking out of one of your 

 southern ports or Nantucket or wherever, gas guzzling away and 

 dumping into the ocean and so forth, and pulling out x number of 

 tuna or fill fish or whatever you do not pay a fee. But if you are 

 going out there to earn a living under extraordinarily difficult cir- 

 cumstances you do pay a fee. 



That does not seem to make a lot of sense to me. 



Dr. Baker. That is a good point. 



Senator Kerry. Well, I think we have to think this out a little 

 further. 



One last question before I turn to Senator Stevens. Fleet mod- 

 ernization — we have been going through this for a long time now, 

 and I can remember sitting here a number of years ago, when I 

 was told what the dire needs of the fleet are and how it is setting 

 back our tracking and monitoring capacity and so forth. 



You have a 22-ship fleet approaching 30 years of service. None 

 have had midlife modernization. Only six have been partially reha- 

 bilitated. 



Increasing levels of down time are indicated in the records be- 

 cause of the backlog of deferred maintenance, unreliable shipboard 

 systems, and these modernization efforts finally began 2 years ago. 

 And you have in your full testimony given us some indication of the 

 improvements in the past 3 years, but it is hard for me to under- 

 stand. 



I mean, I know we have a backlog here. We have a lot of people 

 who work on ships who are out of work. We have a lot of shipyards 

 clamoring for work. We have a backlog of money in the pipeline, 

 and the administration is requesting a $54 million decrease this 

 year. 



So, again, I am a little puzzled by the expression of priorities, or 

 even the management of the process. 



Dr. Baker. Well, Senator Kerry, we appreciate your interest in 

 the FRAM plan and your support has been very important to us, 

 and what you point out is absolutely correct. We have an old fleet 

 that is decaying. We are in the process of trying to keep some of 

 those ships alive with repair to extend. We have a situation which 

 is not a good situation right now with the fleet. 



I was personally involved in reviewing the early stages of the 

 NOAA plan, I think it was in 1990 or 1991 when Dr. Knauss sent 

 that plan to outside reviewers, and I was not convinced myself at 

 the time that the plan was a viable plan although I understood the 

 problems faced by the fleet. 



When I took this job as NOAA Administrator, one of the first 

 things I did was to try to understand from all of the various in- 

 volved groups what are the issues associated with having a FRAM 

 plan that can be fully acceptable inside and outside the agency that 

 gets us from where we are today to a fully modernized fleet that 

 meets our needs. 



Now, since the time that the FRAM plan was started, there have 

 been some changes. For example, there are ways to meet the chart- 

 ing and mapping objectives that NOAA has in the National Ocean 

 Service that do not necessarily involve NOAA ships. You can do 

 this with lasers, for example, carried by aircraft. 



