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get money out of that liability fund. I think this committee will join 

 you to do that, because this committee joined me in establishing 

 the institute. 



I do have a number of problems with the budget request. Let us 

 talk about the fees for a minute, Mr. Chairman. Up my way you 

 could not be a sports fisherman and sell your fish. If you sell your 

 fish you are a commercial fisherman and you have to get a com- 

 mercial fishing tag. 



I do not understand allowing sports fishermen to sell their fish. 

 I think we ought to address that question right off. A sports fisher- 

 man that catches more than they need is not a sportsman as far 

 as I am concerned. They ought to have more catch and release dis- 

 cipline as far as these sportsmen are concerned. There is no reason 

 to allow sportsmen into commercial activity. I think we should ad- 

 dress that here in terms of what we are going to do. 



If a person sells fish they are commercial and I would require 

 that person to have a commercial license. And in an area of con- 

 trolled access or quotas, which is in almost every area, recreational 

 fishermen have got to get in line. It may well be they have no right 

 to catch the fish they are catching. So, I think we ought to give 

 some good study to that. 



But what bothers me is the 2-percent fee. I think the 1-percent 

 fee is in trouble from the start with the committee. The 2-percent 

 fee applies in fisheries that have the individual fishery quotas put 

 into effect, and to my knowledge that is basically Alaska. Is that 

 right? 



Dr. Baker. No. There are several of the ITQ programs. We have 

 an Atlantic Surf Clam Program, which is an ITQ. Do we have oth- 

 ers? I think there are three all together. 



Senator Stevens. And that is a 3 percent which I understand in- 

 cludes the 1-percent fee. 



Dr. Baker. It is in addition, Senator. It is in addition I under- 

 stand — 3 percent does not include the 1 percent in the current pro- 

 posal. 



Senator Stevens. Oh, I understood it was the 3 percent was in- 

 clusive of the 1 percent across the board. Is that not true? It is 3 

 percent on ITQ/IFQ? I stand corrected and I thank you. 



But we have had some discussions about this before. I do not 

 know how it is in New England and elsewhere in the country, but 

 in Alaska there is an established method of distributing the catch. 

 The fish tickets are actually reported and given to individual fish- 

 ermen. They report that as their income. 



The crew opposes taht new system vigorously, especially, if we 

 imposed a tax on them for the ITQ/IFQ. I am sure you know the 

 boat owners, the boat operators wanted the IFQ/ITQ. And it ap- 

 pears to me that you are making the crew oppose the ITQ/IFQ sys- 

 tem pay for the system. 



And with a crew of eight, the boat would get a share. The cap- 

 tain gets a larger share, and the other seven split the balance. And 

 by definition in most instances that is more than one-half of the 

 value of the catch, and yet they — the crew — are going to be paying 

 for the IFQ. That does not set very well. 



I have just come back from Alaska, and the people who have the 

 individual fish tickets do not think they should pay a tax, and that 



